Advancing Pet Health Through the Science of Ozone with Dr. Sarina Barbara

In this episode, Dr. Sarina Barbara and Dr. Lindsey Wendt join me to chat about ozone therapy. We dive behind it's science and success stories  and chat about the myriad of ways it can be beneficial for our pets health, including propelling treatments for cardiac and kidney conditions in pets to new heights.
Safety is paramount when it comes to our pets, and that's why we take a thorough look at the precautions and protocols surrounding the application of ozone therapy. From the dos and don'ts  to the strategic timing of antioxidant use. As veterinarians increasingly adopt ozone therapy, discover how you can navigate this expanding landscape to find the best care for your furry family members.

Useful Links:
https://animalozonetherapies.com/
Pet Shampoo : https://amzn.to/3vYNeLj

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

So nice to see you guys. We are going to talk about ozone therapy today, which is something that I really know very little about, nor do I really understand how it works.

Speaker 2: 0:14

They have been silent all day and just decided it's okay.

Speaker 1: 0:22

It's because they can hear the you know what it's a dog podcast, so it's super appropriate. It adds a little flavor to the podcast episode. I don't mind it at all, Um so sorry, oh man. I have a collection right now. What kind of dog do you have?

Speaker 2: 0:39

Yes, I find myself accidentally rescuing dogs and cats in need. So I have a colony of geriatric dogs and cats.

Speaker 1: 0:51

Well, good for you for doing that. You just rescue them and then help them live out the rest of their years.

Speaker 2: 0:56

Yep, I do so, being in the field, I'm in, they just happen to come my way and yeah, so I have a soft spot for them.

Speaker 1: 1:09

They know, they know, I know one of my big dreams is to have, like a senior dog sanctuary, just where everybody can go and, just, you know, live out the rest of their lives in peace and being cared for Well. Kudos to you for doing that. That's great.

Speaker 2: 1:26

Thank you, and hopefully they don't contribute to this podcast much more today. It's okay.

Speaker 1: 1:32

It's okay if they do. Well, we're going to talk about ozone therapy and, as I was saying, that this is something that I know very little about. I know Dr Lindsay gave me an ozone therapy shampoo many moons ago for my dog's skin issues and it really seemed to help. I don't know how, but it was like we had been using like a medicated shampoo for a really long time and it was super drying him out and nothing was really getting better. But we you know he had had skin stuff his whole life and so we couldn't really get to the root of it, but this seemed to really really help. So we've been using that Um, but I know that it can be used for like so many different things.

Speaker 1: 2:10

I was reading um, all sorts of different ailments with our pups, and so I'm just curious. I think we're just going to dive in and talk about what ozone therapy is like. Where did it come from? And, um, we can, you can talk a little bit about you and how you fell into it, and yeah, all right, For sure I like it.

Speaker 2: 2:29

So, yeah, you are not alone, because not a lot of people know about ozone therapy at all. So that's kind of one of my missions that I accidentally found myself falling upon is spreading the word, because it's a shame that not many people know what it is and don't even know that it's an amazing tool to not only help their own health but their pet's health as well. So, yeah, I'll give you a little rundown as far as how I got into it, because I, like you, had never heard of it, no idea about it went through vet school Like this is not something that you learn in vet school or medical school and I did an externship at Florida Wild Veterinary Hospital in DeLand, florida, when I was a senior in vet school and they had just brought ozone therapy into the practice at that point, so they were just sort of like dabbling with it.

Speaker 2: 3:31

Then you could tell they weren't sure either, kind of what exactly they were doing, but were excited and hopeful that they had it and could start using it. So I was just the first little like, hmm, what, what's this that they're doing? Um, and they actually had a pretty intense case come through around that time where it was a labrador that was getting um receiving chemotherapy for lymphoma and he was on the regimen where he was getting doxorubicin injections and, um, there was an accidental extravasation, meaning that that solution leaked out of the vein and went into the subcutaneous tissue of the limb. And when that happens it is devastating. A lot of the times the limb has to be amputated because the tissue just necrosis through the bone.

Speaker 1: 4:36

Oh right, Okay, that makes sense.

Speaker 2: 4:40

Everyone's biggest fear when you're using this drug or for chemotherapy. I'm assuming it doesn't happen very often so, or do I want to? Yeah, so whenever vets are using this, this chemotherapy, there's lots of precautions and and and um kind of protocols to prevent it from happening, but still it happens sometimes. Um, and so this dog's leg just was swollen and inflamed and like five times the size of the other leg. Um, and the owners were prepared we're going to need to amputate this limb, and ozone therapy was just brought into the practice at that point, and so the doctors there just started using it, injecting it around the area that was affected, giving it systemically as well, which we can talk about all the different modes using it to clean the wound. And in the end the dog did not lose his limb, didn't ever need to receive even have a deep, a debriding surgery, and ended up completely healed with a fully functioning limb.

Speaker 2: 5:59

So that was a bit crazy, and that was my first like what the heck is this? What's going on here? Yeah, so, yeah, that was my first little introduction to ozone therapy, and then I finished vet school and I actually got offered a job there, so I accepted and I went straight in to practice at Florida Wild once I graduated Cool, and I started to dabble with ozone as well. But I wasn't there. I just wasn't quite sure as far as what am I doing? How is this working? So I wasn't really seeing these amazing effects that I was hoping I would see and I wasn't using it that much cause I was just a new grad, not really sure what I was doing.

Speaker 2: 6:51

Um, but then I had the opportunity to go and have a four day in-person training with Dr Schallenberger, who is he's a big, big ozone guy, so he is, um, yeah, so he's like the ozone figure in the United States. Um, he is a medical doctor, so he's a he's a human physician who's been practicing ozone therapy, promoting it, doing research on it, for longer than I've been alive and um, and I went and got to have personal training with him on his protocols, how to do ozone therapy. Why is it working? How is it working?

Speaker 2: 7:37

And that's when everything changed, because I really start to to understand, um, understand the mechanisms behind it, and also got to realize, like holy crap, can we be doing so much more with our pet patients? Because in the human world they're doing amazing things with ozone therapy. They're doing amazing things with ozone therapy and it's just not really made its way into veterinary medicine that much yet. It has, but not that much yet. So learning his protocols and what he's doing with his human patients made me think like, well, why can't we do all that with our pet patients, right? So I pretty much took all that training and just kind of did a lot of brainstorming and calculations on how to modify these doses and make it so that it's appropriate for our patients and species, and we applied it and updated all of our protocols at Florida wild and started seeing like incredible results. Um, and then it's just kept taking off and after years of just using it on thousands of patients, um, other vets are starting to reach out and ask for consults. And what are we doing? And so, um, word started to spread and people are flying Like we literally have clients that drive RVs. Fly in like people are coming from out of state, flying and driving for hours to come and receive these types of therapies, um, for their pets, so, which is super cool, but it also makes me a little sad because it's like more vets should have this to provide to their patients. So then that led me to develop.

Speaker 2: 9:39

Me and my business partner, dr Holder, who was the owner of Florida Wild, we developed Animal Ozone Therapies, which is an online educational platform that provides education to veterinarians and protocols on how to start ozone therapy, how to bring it into your practice and how to use it safely and effectively with your patients. So that's kind of my story as far as how I got into it, and it's just sort of one of those things that happened. I definitely didn't go to vet school thinking, oh, I can't wait to learn about ozone and to learn about ozone and treatment, right, like what even is it? So yeah, so I'm happy to go down the road to actually explain what it actually is as well. Yeah, right, that's great. Okay, so what is ozone? What is ozone?

Speaker 1: 10:41

Yeah, when I say it, it still, for whatever reason, makes me think of, which is's still for whatever reason, makes me think of, which is completely unrelated, but it makes me think of, like michael jackson in a hypobaric oxygen chamber and I don't know, all right in the 80s, which is now not, not even something someone would blink at now, but for whatever reason. That's when someone says oh, I don't know if they do have anything to do with each other.

Speaker 2: 11:06

It does actually so I like that.

Speaker 1: 11:10

That's where your brain went. I wasn't expecting that, so it wasn't so far off. Yeah, we gave him so much crap for that, but you know who knew.

Speaker 2: 11:21

Yeah, I wasn't expecting you to say that's where your brain goes when you hear ozone, but I like it.

Speaker 1: 11:27

It's been weighing on my head.

Speaker 2: 11:30

Because ozone is a type of oxygen therapy. Um, first of all, it's a lot easier to administer and to give these treatments rather than putting a patient in this loud, claustrophobic machine where it's incredibly scary and stressful and they have to sit in there for hours while a nurse has to stand there and monitor them and make sure they're not having alternative like side effects and interesting, and making sure they're doing okay, they're not like having respiratory issues. And then also it does kind of stimulate more of a free radical response, hyperbaric chambers, whereas ozone is, I guess, a gentler free radical stimulation which we can talk a little bit about. So yeah, so I overall think ozone is the better route to go, but hyperbaric does have a lot of similar beneficial effects, though at the same time. So all right.

Speaker 2: 13:09

So ozone is it's literally three oxygen molecules that are bound together. So the air that we breathe, the oxygen in the air that we breathe, those are two oxygen atoms bound together. That's how oxygen likes to be. It likes to be a couple, so two together. So when three are bound together, they're sharing an electron which makes that molecule unstable. So that molecule doesn't want to be three, it wants to be two, so it wants to get rid of that third oxygen atom, rid of that third oxygen atom. So where this is beneficial is when it's exposed to what I call like a biomolecule. So in, for example, to our blood, the surface of a wound, our skin, it's gonna immediately donate that oxygen to a biomolecule to bind to it and then a whole cascade of events occur after that. So it pretty much will stimulate, um the like a catabolic enzymatic reaction within the cells to kind of go out a process which there's just multiple, multiple different cascades that it can stimulate.

Speaker 2: 14:34

But for some of the most common things that it does is it increases the ATB production of mitochondria. So what that means is that it increases the cell's ability to produce energy and that energy is incredibly important for immune function, for body systems, for overall organ function and one of the most across the board, any chronic disease is shown to have decreased mitochondrial function. So being able to increase the mitochondrial function in these patients can automatically be very helpful. Thing it's really good at stimulating is increasing the red blood cells ability to transport oxygen to areas in need. So if there's an area in the body that is low in oxygen or ischemic, it is going to be more drawn to that area and want to bring more oxygen to that area.

Speaker 2: 15:46

So it can really be incredibly useful for cardiac situations, kidney disease, pretty much any disease process where there's a decreased oxygen input to an area, which also is a really common denominator for most chronic diseases there's decreased oxygen flow in that body system or that organ. And another cool thing too is it increases the elasticity of the red blood cells. So those little, little tiny, tiny vessels, those tiny capillaries um, where blood will have trouble perfusing, in those areas with ozone therapy it allows them to be a little bit more bouncy and squishy and get through in those tiny, tiny areas. So, again, increasing oxygen delivery to those areas.

Speaker 2: 16:52

Because they need this might just sound like a silly question, but because we need oxygen to heal, right, absolutely. We need oxygen to live. Yeah, yes, yeah.

Speaker 1: 16:59

For sure this might be a bit off topic, but what causes reduced oxygen flow to a certain?

Speaker 2: 17:06

area. Yeah, so inflammation is going to be like the biggest, broadest answer to that decreased function of those vessels and decreased ability to just efficiently get the energy and get the oxygen to those that tissue, and then they can get stuck in a vicious cycle and then that the function gets worse and then the oxygen levels get worse and then the inflammation then gets worse.

Speaker 2: 17:40

So pretty much chronic disease is just any patient, pretty much, that walks through the door that's over five years old has some degree of of chronic disease these days, which is a shame, but it's just they. They get in these vicious cycles and that's why we're seeing one of many reasons why we're just seeing so much cancers and so much liver disease and kidney failures and autoimmune diseases. They're so common and it's something we deal with on a regular basis as vets. It's just normal. It's normal to deal with this on a daily basis.

Speaker 2: 18:22

But having this therapy, Is it pretty accepted that that's for a lot of veterinarians that that's just what you're going to see, oh, yeah, big time Like going to vet school you learn how to treat these diseases, how to diagnose and treat all these diseases, how to diagnose and treat all these diseases. But I really didn't appreciate really truly understanding how to truly prevent most of these diseases. So sure, we learn about vaccines to prevent getting parvovirus and things like that, which of course is important, but really it gets kind of deep and complicated and lots of different opinions and controversies when it comes to what is actually causing all this disease in our patients. So I sort of started diving down that once I graduated yeah, and I still am. I mean, there's there's so much to learn.

Speaker 1: 19:28

Sure, I bet, I bet. I think I interrupted you when you were talking about so. So what was my next question?

Speaker 3: 19:41

I took you off. I think like one of the like, I think one of the other things that might be fun, serena, for you to explain a bit more too, because people are usually like I can't believe that, Like, how does that work? Is the fact that ozone is antiviral and antifungal, so like it basically is able to support the cells of our body in a healthy way while also negatively impacting things that we don't necessarily want to be there.

Speaker 2: 20:06

Yeah for sure, that's a big one and that's pretty much one of the craziest things about ozone and what makes it so unique as well. Because direct contact of ozone with any pathogens so virus, bacteria, protozoa, cancer cells, fungi it damages their cell wall and literally punches holes in their cell wall, resulting in death of that pathogen Wow. But it does not do that to complex organisms I can't just say mammals, because it's helpful for avians and reptiles and things like that as well, but it's beneficial to our cells and their cells and it's not caustic. So, for example, like bleach will also do those things that a very concentrated bleach will also kill all those pathogens. But if you put that bleach on your skin to kill all those pathogens, it's going to kill all the cells on your skin as well.

Speaker 2: 21:20

So that's where ozone is so unique, because there's no resistance, no antibiotic. So the bacteria that has antibiotic resistance there's no resistance to ozone. There's no pathogen out there that can combat ozone, that can survive exposure to ozone, and this is huge because antibiotic resistance is becoming more and more of a huge problem globally. Yeah, for pets and people. Yeah for sure Big time. And veterinarians are responsible for contributing to that. So we need to kind of reel in our antibiotic use a bit, and this is a great way to safely treat bacterial infections while not having to use antibiotics. So yeah, this is super cool. One of the crazy cool weird things about ozone.

Speaker 1: 22:24

So how did you have a question, Dr Lindsay?

Speaker 3: 22:27

I did. One thing I have wondered is the differentiation between, like a cancer cell and a healthy cell, because then we're still taking, like you know, like normal mammalian cells, just for the sake of the example. How is ozone able to negatively affect the cancer but then not negatively impact the healthy cells?

Speaker 2: 22:47

So cancer cells thrive in anaerobic environments. So cancer cells hate oxygen. They do not do well in oxygen-rich environments. So when we're exposing them to these extreme levels of oxygen they actually can't survive. They can't thrive. They do better the less oxygen, the more they can grow, the faster they can grow. So when you saturate them with high levels of oxygen it takes them down a notch and they can't thrive in that environment. So yeah, it's cool stuff for sure.

Speaker 1: 23:33

It's super cool stuff. So how is it? How do you get the? I mean technical question, but how do you get the ozone oxygen therapy into the body?

Speaker 2: 23:45

Yep, these are all great questions.

Speaker 1: 23:48

And where you want it to go specifically.

Speaker 2: 23:50

Yeah, yeah, these are great, great questions. All right, so you need to get an ozone generator. There are a ton of companies out there that make ozone generators. Um, the majority of them are marketed for human use human patient use and like human practitioners but there are a couple companies that are specifically sold and manufactured for veterinarians. So the two that I'm most familiar with is going to be O3 Vets and then RegenerO3 is a newer one, be O3 Vets and then Regener-O3 is a newer one. They are specifically producing these machines and products for veterinarians. So if you're a vet, you get kind of set up with them and they'll get you set up with your generator and teach you how to use it.

Speaker 2: 24:47

So once you get that generator, what it does is it literally produces ozone by having pure oxygen. So you have a pure oxygen tank set up and then it runs through this generator and it goes through a certain type of electrical force that then has these oxygens combine into ozone. There's different settings so that you can have different concentrations, and that's where it comes down to importance of using concentrations appropriately, because you don't want to. If you use an incredibly concentrated form of ozone, it is going to be a bit irritating to the cells of the patient. So you just need to use the appropriate concentration depending on how it's being given. Concentration depending on how it's being given, and what that means is just the amount of ozone to oxygen. So you're going to be using ozone oxygen mixture when you're using it and then, as far as protocols, you will need some guidance on and kind some guidance on which protocols will be appropriate.

Speaker 2: 26:12

But the most common ways to administer ozone is going to be major auto-hemotherapy is what it's called and this is when blood is drawn from the patient. It's then mixed with ozone gas, so it's gently, kind of just rocked back and forth in a syringe or a bag with this gas and only needs to be rocked for a minute or so and it's, and it saturates that blood. So you'll literally watch. It's a really cool thing to actually see because you'll watch this dark, dark, dark blood get put in the bag and then, as soon as you start mixing it, it starts getting red and red and redder and by the end it's like neon red, like this beautiful, bright, thriving red.

Speaker 2: 27:07

Happy healthy red, yeah, cool yeah. And then you inject that ozonated blood back into the patient intravenously. Wow, so that's one form. That's a systemic way to administer ozone. Another systemic way to administer ozone is rectal insufflation. So that consists of literally just giving an enema of gas up the bum. Owners are sometimes when I explain to them what it is, they're like oh, I don't know about that, but it's honestly, it's so easy, it's so well tolerated, it's the. The patients tolerate it so well, like minimal to no stress at all. Um does not require needles or pokes or anything like that. And it's fast, it's easy and actually you're able to get really nice systemic doses in these patients with erectile insufflation. So that is a big one that I highly encourage and push like newer ozone users to start doing, because it's just the easiest and most straightforward way to start helping your patients.

Speaker 1: 28:30

So this is all something that you have to do with a veterinarian. This is not something that you would do on your own, obviously. So, oh, everybody seems a little on the fence about this, yeah, so Maybe it depends on what the issue is Like. If I have a dog with, like, chronic ear infections, is that something I can administer to them on their own? I mean, I know I had a topical shampoo.

Speaker 2: 28:53

It's a little bit different, but yeah, so so I'll answer that in a couple ways. So you're mentioning the ear infections. So you can also saturate solutions with ozone and then use that solution as rinses and as cleaners. And there's special glass beakers that you can have hooked up to your machine that whoever you bought your machine from can set you up with that.

Speaker 2: 29:19

But pretty much it's going to be distilled water or like saline and you just run the ozone through a bubbler through that and it saturates that solution and then you use that solution to like clean the ears, for example, and do ear rinses if you're having ear infection problems. But as far as doing ozone at home, this is something that pet owners absolutely can do. Yep, they can administer ozone at home to their pets. I just am very careful about making sure that these owners have a relationship with a veterinarian and guidance from a veterinarian who is comfortable and familiar with ozone therapy, because you can overdo it.

Speaker 2: 30:18

There are things that pet owners can accidentally end up doing harm rather than good if they don't have the proper guidance doing harm rather than good if they don't have the proper guidance. And for the pet's sake, but also for ozone therapy's sake, it's just so important that we do this right and carefully so that there's no accidental kind of mishap that will make people have this fear of ozone, which is so unnecessary. So it's just important we have safe protocols and guidelines in place, um, so that ozone can continue to grow, um, and people can continue to be comfortable with it and and use it more. But, um, yeah, um, doing ozone at home is definitely something that, um, ozone at home is definitely something that I will have my clients do, especially in chronic cases where they really need to have it, receive it multiple times a week.

Speaker 3: 31:21

Yeah, and just to clarify, and, Serena, I'm curious your answer on this because I do know a few pet parents that had ozone machines before I started working with them and, interestingly enough, as humans they had been dealing with their own Lyme disease issues and it's a really, really big modality in the Lyme community. So I have found at least human wise people that have awareness of that are very quick to want to implement it into the treatment protocols for their fur kids. Outside of so rectal is usually how I have seen pet parents administer it at home. Serena, is there anything else? Because, like I just want to make sure people don't think that they would ever be doing like the major auto chemotherapy at home.

Speaker 1: 32:04

So they would only be doing like blood out and like blood and mix it.

Speaker 3: 32:09

Yeah, so it's usually like rectal insufflation, but I know I've also seen, like Charlotte, your question about ear infections. There's actually little ear cones that go over so and the ozone has to go through a oil kind of bubbler to be able to convert it to a form that's safe if you do inhale it because you don't want to be. That's where I think a lot of the misconceptions of ozone come from, which is one of the things I wanted us to talk about, because people hear ozone and they think of like those old air purifiers from the 90s or the fact that it's like damaging to the lungs or to breathing, but it's all just, like serena was saying, having awareness of how to do it safely and properly. So are there other like do you have clients ever do the ear insufflation like the little ear cones at home?

Speaker 2: 32:57

So typically not really Um, there are. So I I personally like at at um at work. I I don't do the ear insufflation very often. I have a lot of ozone colleagues and friends throughout the world who use it regularly and love it, but I typically don't because of the oil. So if you run it through the oil, it is going to be safer because you're not going to have that caustic effect on the airways, and running it through oil just is one more extra step and one more it's just it's much more time consuming and also you just have to be very careful because the oil can heat up and there can be backs up and pressures and so things can go wrong with, like explosions and things like that.

Speaker 2: 34:03

So if, if you really know what you're doing and you know how to work this machine and you know it inside and out and you understand the science behind it and the mechanics behind it, then great, like go for it.

Speaker 2: 34:18

But I'm personally very uncomfortable having a client running this through an oil bubbler at home, um, cause I feel like things could go wrong, um, and then the other thing is you don't have to run it through um a bubbler If you just use a very low volume of ozone. You can just fill the canal and kind of just hold it off, but it's really important that you confirm that their eardrum's intact and a lot of the times that can be hard to confirm and just like a really inflamed, painful ear. So, um, that's where I just go straight to using the solutions. Um, it seems to be tolerated, the best and and and effective. So I will have owners like bubble their own distilled water and use that to rinse the ears. But yeah, I know some people use the ear cuffs and swear by it, but I kind of strayed away from that.

Speaker 1: 35:21

That sounds too scary for me.

Speaker 2: 35:25

Yeah, I don't mean to scare you.

Speaker 1: 35:27

Yeah, I don't mean to scare you, yeah, so when done properly, there are no side effects with ozone therapy.

Speaker 2: 35:37

So correct. So to kind of sum that up, side effects are pretty much rare to none. Okay, a few situations where I recommend not reaching for ozone therapy are pretty kind of straightforward. If a patient is unstable and actively at risk of dying for any reason, stabilize that patient and then think about ozone Pretty much straightforward. If it's hemorrhaging, figure out why it's hemorrhaging, stop that and then reach for the ozone. Because, believe it or not, some people will just be like how can ozone fix this? Like we can't fix every single thing with it. But ozone can help with red blood cell regeneration. So like it will become beneficial once you stabilize and get that patient, um, in a stable situation.

Speaker 2: 36:40

Um, you don't want to breathe it in, so, um, that's where the um, having the gas, putting the gas in the ears. Why I stray away from that is because it'll leak into ambient air a bit and your staff will breathe it in a little, and the pet will breathe it in a little, and a tiny bit is fine, you'll smell it and it doesn't smell the greatest Um. But once you smell it, you'll, you'll know it, um, and if enough is breathed in, it will cause bronchospasm. So you smell it, you'll, you'll know it, um, and if enough is breathed in, it will cause bronchospasm. So you'll just you'll cough, um. And if you for some reason accidentally inhale like a really high potent, concentrated dose, yeah, that's going to give you a really nasty coughing fit, um, but the way the ozone is handled and and drawn up and transported into their situations, there there's no leakage. So it's not normal to to have to breathe it in. Like, if you, if you smell it, there's a leak somewhere, you find that leak and you fix the problem, um, so, yeah, so you want to avoid inhaling it, um, I also advise veterinarians to be cautious.

Speaker 2: 37:59

If you, if they have a hyperthyroid cat who, um, is unmanaged, so is their thyroid level super high and they're having all these symptoms showing that they're going into, like, hyperthyroid crisis, you want to avoid ozone on those patients because hyperthyroidism is the metabolism and metabolic functions amped up, and ozone amps up metabolic functions, so it can sometimes tip them over the edge. If you do ozone on those cats that are riding the edge, now, it's not contraindicated to do on hyperthyroid cats who are managed, that is fine. But if they're unmanaged and in a severe kind of hyperthyroid state, you want to avoid it in them and then let's see. I think the only other one I advise using caution is using on pregnant animals, and it's not because bad things have ever happened using it on pregnant animals, it's just that the research is a little bit limited right now for use with pregnancy. So I know, like the conferences I go to on ozone therapy, there are physicians human physicians that talk about how they use ozone therapy on pregnant women, like it's it's used on pregnant patients, um, but I just say use caution because there's just not enough research out there to back us up.

Speaker 2: 39:43

So if, say, it's used on a very expensive bitch and she for some reason aborts a million-dollar litter. For another reason, we don't want ozone to be blamed for that. We've got to protect this therapy. So we just want to be cautious with that until we have enough data out there that supports the safety use in pregnant animals. But that does also bring me around to that. There are thousands of research, published studies on ozone therapy. This is a well-studied therapy. This isn't some brand new thing that just started being used. There's a lot of science, a lot of supportive data on um, on its use, its efficacy, why it works, how it works. Um, there's so much more to go, but um, we already we we have a lot of data to back us up.

Speaker 1: 40:43

That's great. When did it? When did it come into fashion is the wrong word, but when was it essentially discovered? Or how long have people been using ozone therapy?

Speaker 2: 40:55

Oh boy.

Speaker 2: 40:57

I don't know if you have the answer to this question. So the first medical ozone generator was developed in the 1800s. Wow, yeah, so that's when it first kind of started and was developed and it got into like trauma units where it was starting to be used for wounds like soldiers from the war it was being used for that, and then a little bit in dentistry is where it started to be used. And then antibiotics were discovered, um, and so ozone kind of took a bit of a back burner because antibiotics were a bit easier and could be patented and put in bottles and shelves and sold and distributed Um but um. But it continued to um, grow and um. And today there's at least 50 professional medical ozone associations and groups throughout the world. Um, biggest ozone areas are Cuba, Europe, Russia, South America.

Speaker 1: 42:21

Yeah, those are the so everywhere, but here essentially, yeah, it's another one of those things that's been around for quite some time.

Speaker 2: 42:52

In Europe. Yeah, but not's another one of those things that's been around for quite some time in Europe, but not here patients. So most ERs, most physicians, have ozone generators and use it as part of their treatment modalities.

Speaker 2: 42:56

It's not considered an alternative or an integrative as part of their mainstay treatments. And pretty much and ozone is used a lot in the US as well. But one of the reasons why it's not used as much here as it is in those areas is because insurance doesn't cover it and pretty much it doesn't cover it because it's not FDA approved, because it can't be patented Like you can't patent a molecule Like you can't, you can't patent a molecule so Interesting, yeah, so therefore, insurance won't cover it.

Speaker 2: 43:37

So all the humans that receive ozone therapy here in the States it's all out of pocket. But in vet med most I mean. I know there are some insurances and that people will get insurances on their pets and it's great, but a lot of people don't and they pay out of pocket for their pet's health care. Yeah, so I do find it's, I guess, a little bit easier to have a client pay for ozone for their pet than it is to kind of have them pay for it for their own health care for some reason, I think we found that in this podcast across the board for so many things.

Speaker 1: 44:16

It's so much easier to like. I mean, I could say that for myself. I said before my dog gets a host of supplements and I can barely remember to take my vitamin D on my own, but he gets it all. I don't forget his ever. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 44:29

Yeah, I think that is incredibly common Um we're all guilty of it, and our staff too. At work they always admit um, we have, we. We go above and beyond for our pets and sort of forget about ourselves sometimes. But we got to remember to take care of ourselves too. But yeah, I'm incredibly guilty of that as well.

Speaker 1: 44:51

Yeah dr lindy, did you have any more questions? I'm sure you did I do.

Speaker 3: 44:59

Um, so I one of the big questions I had. So, similar to you, serena, I got into ozone a few years ago, nowhere near the depths that you have, so I have been utilizing it myself and I have seen amazing results. And one thing, just so that people understand how easy rectal insufflation is I have two cats that I treat at home, that I give rectal insufflation to on a regular basis, and they barely even notice. We give them a little lickable treat. They lick it. It's I almost think it's easier, for whatever reason, than having their temperature taken, and I cannot tell you exactly why, but there's, they react more to temperatures being taken than that. So just for anyone that thinks, like my, my pet would never accept that you'd be surprised.

Speaker 3: 45:46

But one question I did have was with the frequency. So when I was first getting into it, I know that I had a veterinarian tell me you need to be giving antioxidants every time you do an ozone treatment. So just, I think there's some probably misconceptions that are floating around. So I was curious to get your opinion on that. Like, how frequently can we use it in chronic cases? Do we need to be giving anything to combat the free radicals that are being formed, kind of any sage advice you have for those of us that are just starting to get into it.

Speaker 2: 46:19

So that is interesting. So giving an antioxidant if you're using ozone, so I don't. I like antioxidants, so I don't think that's a bad idea. Like supplements and diet, it's so important in the just the holistic approach of helping our pets. But is it like something that is you have to have if you're doing ozone therapy? I'd go with no. But can it be a helpful additional tool? Yes, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 46:56

But the important thing is that, um, so giving the antioxidants, you actually want to stop giving them for a couple days before you do the ozone, because if their systems are floating around a ton of antioxidants, it's going to cancel out that ozone.

Speaker 2: 47:18

So it's not going to hurt the patient that it's there, but the patient's just going to get a much lower dose than what you actually administered Because all those antioxidants are just going to cancel it out.

Speaker 2: 47:30

So if your patient is receiving a bunch of antioxidants as part of their protocol and supplements, it's best to hold off on them for a couple days I mean at least 24 hours, I would say before administering the ozone, and then you can start it right up immediately after giving the ozone. But one of the really cool things about ozone is that, yes, it's a free radical, but it is the gentlest of the free radicals and pretty much what it's doing is it's actually stimulating the body's natural ability to produce its own antioxidants. So it's actually kind of correcting and fixing the immune system and the body's own protective mechanisms. So if you are giving ozone regularly low-dose ozone on a regular basis, like your cats, they're systems being trained to amp up their own antioxidant production. So they really shouldn't need antioxidants after they receive ozone for a period of time, because their body is already creating it.

Speaker 3: 48:51

Well, that's awesome. And then in those chronic cases like inflammatory bowel disease or, you know, pancreatitis or what have you, I mean, can we be giving let's like rectal insufflation twice a week, ongoing Like is there? Because I know there's probably a point at which even something that's like rectal insufflation twice a week, ongoing Like is there, because I know there's probably a point at which even something that's incredibly helpful can cross over to maybe having some detrimental side effects. Is it on a per patient basis or frequency of administration?

Speaker 2: 49:16

For sure. So everything, when it comes down to it, I always say every patient is their own individual and we will. We will approach this patient as their own individual and we will. We will approach this patient as their own and modify the plan as we go to be the best for this specific patient. But in the the overrun um, if they have a chronic disease that they will have the rest of their life um doing, I put them on maintenance plans. So I'll hit them with higher dose, frequent ozone to get them out of that like crisis vicious cycle mode and then, once we have that managed and we're good and we're like in a good, smooth maintenance phase, I'll put them on maintenance to kind of keep them there and then if for some reason they fall out and they start to go back down that spiral, then I'll amp them up and do higher dose more frequently and then wean them down to a maintenance.

Speaker 2: 50:18

So when I say maintenance, a lot of the times I can get away with every other week rectal insufflation. I have a lot of patients that come in just once a month for their maintenance. Some just need to have once a week, twice a week is fine as well If we're doing like five days a week, then we just need to give. We need to give them a break. So if we do it that often, the mucosa and the rectum's just gonna get a bit irritated. We need to give the mucosa a chance to kind of regenerate and heal and not be kind of irritated that often. If yeah, so if you do it that frequently, it can be a little caustic to that mucosa. So, yeah, every patient has their own maintenance plan that I developed for them based on how they respond and how they tell us they need it.

Speaker 3: 51:23

So how they respond and how they tell us they need it.

Speaker 3: 51:35

And then this is really specific.

Speaker 3: 51:36

But I think two of the issues that I've seen a lot of animals have where it is hard to give them a good treatment option I know a lot of, you know pet parents get frustrated by our penovasculitis and then like unclassified alopecia.

Speaker 3: 51:47

So for the pet parents out there, like for the little chihuahuas or, you know, minpins that have a loss of hair just on the edge of their ears because I know that's really concerning and there's not necessarily the you know the best treatment options out there like even when I send them to dermatologists, sometimes we'll get them stabilized where they are, but we very rarely get any hair regrowth. And then the same is true like alopecia, is them just losing hair. So a lot of Pomeranians people will see well, they'll have hair on their legs and on their head and their body is, you know, bald or balding. Have you used ozone in any of those cases? When you were talking about, like, how well the red blood cells get to all of those areas of capillaries, the first thing I thought of was the penovasculitis and I was just curious.

Speaker 2: 52:31

That is. That is very interesting. So no, I really haven't um with these alopecia cases. Um, it's I find that everyone I've dealt with or most of them are are cosmetic, like it's not a health issue at all for them, like it's not causing them pain, discomfort, like there's really no issue. They just look funny. So yeah. So I typically my owners are just like is this really hurting them? Like do we really have to do things to fix this, because they could care less that they have these bald spots. So I really haven't had any owners that are like I need this fixed. But that is interesting. So if you have those owners, do some ozone and let me know because you got to write that paper up if that works, because I haven't heard of anyone using it on those cases before. That'll be cool.

Speaker 3: 53:28

I will. Yeah, I'll definitely keep that in mind. I would love to see more. So I guess this is kind of a question branching out beyond pet parents. But like, how do we help some of our more conventional colleagues, like oncologists and dermatologists and internal medicine specialists, start to incorporate this when there is so much scientific literature? Because I feel like what I hear from a lot of people that are conventionally trained is there's not enough science for me to start integrating blank in. Like we face that a lot with cannabis, but I don't think that that applies to ozone. There's so much science For sure. So, like, is there anything that?

Speaker 2: 54:04

we can do. There's so much science For sure. So, like, is there anything that we can do? Yeah, so I'm glad you asked this, because this has been my kind of thing too. I'm like why, why aren't we using this? Why aren't we being taught this in vet school? Why doesn't every veterinarian have an ozone machine in their clinic? So what? And others are asking that question as well. So there are a few like colleagues and ozone friends mostly, who I hooked up with and and met with at the holistic conference. So where we met and there they have that same question and dilemma as well, and they have that same question and dilemma as well. So I know Jill Rubin. She's one of the ones. She owns Regenero3, one of the companies. She has been talking with UC Davis on trying to get in there and start to introduce ozone therapy into even their curriculum a little bit.

Speaker 2: 55:09

And that's where I think the game changer will be. Vets aren't open to it because we're not taught it in vet school. So therefore it must not be like validated and real. So I think if we can get into some universities, that's when it's going to be more accepted. Um cause, if the universities back it up and accept it, then then everyone else will. They won't be as scared, they won't be as skeptical because, um, cause, the universities accept it and that's when we learn from and they're respectable sources, which is true. So if we, if we can get into universities, that's, that's, I think, going to be the game changer. So, yeah, so I'm hoping to try and just even do some, just some talks at like. I know a lot of universities have integrative clubs and even though, like it's a little bit of a pet peeve of mine to call this an integrative therapy, because like it really shouldn't be, but that's where we're gonna get in because, um, because it's not accepted yet as a, as a mainstay therapy, um. So may I ask?

Speaker 1: 56:18

is integrative. The same thing as like if someone said it was a complementary therapy yeah, for sure so we're saying that this is not just complementary, this is a tried and true therapy.

Speaker 2: 56:27

Yeah, correct. Yeah, I mean I'd like for it to be more accepted as a mainstay, but it is a complementary. It is because it does make your drugs work better. It does reduce side effects of your drugs. You use it with your mainstay treatments. It does reduce side effects of your drugs. You use it with your mainstay treatments. But I know a lot of traditional Western trained vets are very put off by the word like integrative, complementary. So I try to be careful about throwing those terms out when I'm trying to talk to the traditionally trained vets because, um, I'm hoping this kind of comes across as a studied validated proven scientific source of or mode of treatment.

Speaker 2: 57:19

Um, yeah, and I really think once, once the universities accept it, then then we're going to be golden. Before we know it, everyone's going to have ozone generators. We'll see.

Speaker 3: 57:33

That's great. And then for pet parents that are looking you know if they're a veterinarian, because most of the time their veterinarians will not be offering this how do you recommend that they find practitioners near them that may be offering this, if they are having chronic health issues that they're trying to sign up?

Speaker 2: 57:48

for.

Speaker 3: 57:49

Yeah, that is a great question.

Speaker 2: 57:51

So it's a little bit tough. So, honestly, doing a Google search and literally typing in ozone vet, you can sometimes come up with personal websites of vets that have that as a modality. Another resource is O3. Vets is the company that sells to a lot of veterinarians who do ozone in the States, so they have like a list of the people who have purchased their machines and you could maybe get connected through that Um. So it's out there like more and more and more vets are are using it. Um, but some areas it's.

Speaker 2: 58:38

It's going to be tough to find a vet. That's that's close. So I would be prepared to maybe have to travel to at least just get established with that vet and then, once you're established, they can maybe set up protocols for you to do at home. And then I always recommend doing follow-ups. It doesn't have to be like every week, but it's important to touch base and update the protocols and not just stick with one thing long-term for the rest of their life, because we change and so we just have to adapt our therapies as the patient adapts.

Speaker 1: 59:19

I think the shampoo that we were using is O3. Is that what you said? It is yeah.

Speaker 3: 59:25

Yeah, it's.

Speaker 1: 59:25

O3. You can just get that on Amazon if anyone's looking for a shampoo ozone therapy shampoo for their pup to help with some skin stuff.

Speaker 2: 59:33

Yeah, there's also oils and topicals too, so like ointments that you can get online as well. Can you use those for like hot spots? Exactly, yeah.

Speaker 1: 59:47

I have a guy who just keeps getting these chronic hot spots and I didn't think of that, I did not think of ozone. So I am going to go look for that right now, after we get off this conversation, because I want to make it. We need to get to the root cause of why you keep getting these hot spots, which is a whole other thing. But, yeah, good, interesting, okay, good, all right, you guys, well, anything else that you want to add?

Speaker 3: 1:00:13

No, that was great. Thank you so much.

Speaker 2: 1:00:15

Yeah, thank you for inviting me to talk about it. I'm excited that people are becoming more interested and that the word is being spread, so we just need more and more people talking about it, and so the word goes around that there's this cool thing called ozone out there.

Speaker 1: 1:00:37

All right, dr Lindy, dr Serena, thank you so much, Absolutely.

Speaker 2: 1:00:45

Thank you.