Re- Release : Navigating Pet Loss During the Holidays: Coping Mechanisms and Healing Tools with Dr. Lindsey Wendt and Mindy Meiering

Originally released  in 2023 

Navigating the holiday season after losing a beloved pet can be emotionally complicated, but you're not alone in this journey.  Dr. Lindsey Wendt DVM,  joins me co-hosting a chat with Mindy Meiering, LCSW, a licensed therapist, certified life coach and the author/creator of the Rainbow Bridge Pet Loss Deck, a healing tool that supports people after the heartbreaking loss of a pet. She works with people who are navigating various types of loss and life transitions, offering them tools to cultivate resilience and healing. 
Mindy shares her insights on the power of gratitude and the process of creating her grief deck.  Our conversation is infused with actionable strategies for coping with grief during the holiday season, from incorporating pets into our holiday traditions to communicating our needs to loved ones. By the end, we hope you'll find comfort in the realization that while our pets' physical presence may fade, their spirit remains forever in our hearts.

Useful Links:
Dr. Lindsey Wendt https://www.crystallotusvet.com/
Instagram https://www.instagram.com/crystallotusvet/

Mindy Meiering https://rainbowbridgedeck.com/
Instagram @mindymeiring

Chapters

• 0:01 Welcome And Purpose
• 0:46 Guests Introduced: Vet And Therapist
• 1:28 Holiday Triggers And A Personal Loss
• 2:56 At‑Home End‑Of‑Life Care Explained
• 4:32 Why Holiday Decisions Get Rushed
• 5:55 Creating Rituals For Peaceful Transitions
• 7:19 Normalizing Pet Grief And The Deck
• 9:17 Why Pet Grief Feels So Intense
• 11:28 Tools For Heavy Holiday Grief
• 13:13 Boundaries, Bandwidth, And Support
• 15:10 Stories That Show Pets Save Lives
• 16:38 Preparing For Goodbye And Presence
• 18:18 Guilt, Anger, And Self‑Compassion
• 20:36 Gratitude Practices That Actually Help
• 22:20 Acts Of Service And Giving Back
• 23:31 How To Use The Rainbow Bridge Deck
• 25:04 Memorials, Keepsakes, And Ceremonies
• 27:04 Closing Thanks And Links

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:01

Dogs make the best companions for humans. This podcast aims to help make humans better companions for their dogs. Welcome to the Baruch Podcast, a modern lifestyle podcast for dogs and their people. I'm your host, Charlotte Bain. I've been caring for other people's dogs for more than 15 years. And while I've learned a lot in my career, I definitely don't know it all. So I've collected an ever-evolving roster of amazing dog people. And I learn new things from them all the time. Thank you so much for joining me for this episode of the Baruch Podcast. Today we are doing something a little different. Dr. Lindsay Wendt is joining me as my special guest co-host, and we are chatting with Mindy Meyering, a licensed therapist, certified life coach, and the author and creator of the Rainbow Bridge Pet Loss Deck, which is a healing tool that helps support people after the heartbreaking loss of a pet. And as we head into the holidays, we thought it was important to continue to normalize these conversations around pet loss. The holidays can be really triggering for those who have experienced a loss. And Dr. Lindsay, I can even share a story with you and to those that are listening. Yesterday was Thanksgiving, and I don't know, I know you know Dr. Lindsay, but I don't know if I've talked about it on the podcast. Recently, in August, I lost my Golden Retriever client who I had been caring for since he was seven months old. He was a little over 15 when he passed, and I'm really close with his family and I've known them forever. And they do have another dog, so I'm there a lot. But yesterday I went over for Thanksgiving and I walked in and the whole family was there, and I immediately felt this really deep sense of sadness and loss over Bosco, the golden retriever. All the holidays that we had with him begging for food and he would be breathing heavily at the dinner table, they all kind of like flash before me. And I felt this really deep sadness. And I love that dog dearly, as if he was my own dog. I know that he's not my own dog, and it just really made me think about the time that I have left with chance and cherish those moments even more than I do already. And I found myself taking extra photos of Chance during Thanksgiving dinner. It was probably annoying everybody at the table, but I couldn't stop making photos of him. So it kind of just really speaks to those moments when grief can really just hit when you aren't expecting it, right?

SPEAKER_03: 2:47

Thank you so much for your vulnerability and sharing your experience because I know I can empathize so much with your story, both as a dog mom and professionally. As a veterinarian, I offer many different types of support to pets and their families, but a cornerstone and true labor of love of my practice for the last 10 years has been aiding in at-home end of life transitions, which many people often refer to as euthanasia. I know that for many of us, it's one of the most challenging moments that we have to face in our adult lives, but unfortunately, it's also a situation that most of us as pet parents will have to encounter at some point. So I really want to offer tools to support those that are facing these difficult choices, whether it's now or in the future, and especially during this time of year. This topic is also so important for anyone that's remembering their beloved animal companions who are no longer with us. There are so many aspects of the holidays, you know, whether it's traditions or, you know, maybe even stress about being around family or certain things that really helps to just illustrate and highlight how important they are to us as a support system and a source of unconditional love. So I am really honored to be here to help support everyone and, like you said, normalize these conversations because they're important.

SPEAKER_01: 4:07

It's so true. I was not expecting to carry those feelings through Thanksgiving, through dinner, and even into today, I'm still thinking about I'm still thinking about them. Well, thank you for joining me. And let's just jump into the chat. Sounds good. Well, thanks you guys for jumping on. And Lindsay, this is very exciting. You are my, this is the first time we're co-hosting a podcast episode together. So I am thrilled to have you on as my co-host. I think you can bring so much value to these conversations. So thank you so much for doing this. Um, I am I'm happy to have both of you on. I think as we head into the holidays, it's we can never talk about pet loss too much. We can never normalize conversations around grief and around the loss of a beloved pet too much. So I think it's really important that we're doing this now. That probably the hardest part of being a pet parent, right, is the loss of your beloved pet. So so first, Dr. Lindsay, thank you so much for joining. Um, I think you, as I said, mentioned, you bring a lot of value to these conversations. Do you want for those who uh you've been on the podcast before, we talked about all the great ways that we can support um, all the great ways that you holistically support our pets. And you um that's something that we just touched on briefly is that you do offer end of life care for pets. So you have a firsthand experience working with families during that difficult time. So would you like to just like reintroduce yourself a little bit to the people that are listening and talk about? I would love to.

SPEAKER_03: 5:53

Okay, great. Yeah. So my name is Dr. Lindsay Wendt. I am a practitioner in the Los Angeles, Southern California area. And as I've evolved through my career, actually, the one thing that I've started from the beginning and maintained with a deep passion and just true resonance with is end-of-life transitioning. So as my practice has evolved from conventional to integrative, functional, holistic, whatever term you want to give it, end-of-life care has really been by my side and has also evolved as I've obtained new tools. So as Charlotte mentioned, that is still something I, you know, I offer to families on a weekly basis. So every week I help at least, you know, a handful of families, but you know, at certain times of the year, like the holidays, unfortunately, we end up having to make some of those decisions far more often than we'd like to. So I really do just try to be available. And um, I think one thing, and the reason I'm so excited to have Mindy on here is one thing I've really come to realize is how important it is, it is for us to not only support our pets, but to support the human counterparts in the family. And I think as a veterinarian, that's not something that I was taught or prepared really how to do properly. So it's something that I'm I'm lucky that intuitively I've been able to pick up some of those skills, but it's always something that's evolving. I think it's always something that as a profession we need to focus on because it's far too often that we focus on it as a procedure and not as what it truly is, which is truly it's a transition for the entire family.

SPEAKER_01: 7:26

Right. During the holidays, it seems like there are tougher decisions that have to be made when it comes to end-of-life care. Are you seeing do you see that, Dr. Lindsay, that it's more to put it bluntly, people have to make that choice during the holiday season more often than during the rest of the year. Do you see that as something that's common?

SPEAKER_03: 7:52

I do. And what's actually very interesting is I would say that the need for that service is pretty constant throughout the year. But what's actually very interesting is during the holidays, I see a decrease actually initially. Interesting. I would say around October, there's less families seeking out assistance. Okay. And then suddenly around mid-November to the end of December, there's an increase. And I think from my perspective, what's happening is as the holidays come near, I think there's a lot of families that are really, really trying to do everything they can to keep their pets just for one more Thanksgiving, you know, one more holiday celebration. And then they get into a position where they no longer have that choice. And then it what I've found is it becomes a lot more rushed during the holidays, which breaks my heart because they sometimes don't have the opportunity to have someone come into their home. And that's probably something I should have specified. The transitions that I facilitate are all in home. So I allow our, you know, our beloved companions to be where they're comfortable, surrounded by family, having the environment controlled. And, you know, that is such a gift. And I feel like our job as their guardians and as their companions is to make every single step of their life as easy as possible.

SPEAKER_02: 9:08

Right.

SPEAKER_03: 9:08

And that end transition is sometimes, you know, it's the best, it's the best gift that we can give them when they're in a position where we don't see them being able to improve and recover from whatever, you know, illness is affecting them. But you are right, there is definitely an increased demand and it often becomes urgent, which is hard. So I really encourage people to try to take a step back, focus on quality of life assessment, and don't let that be a rush decision just simply because of the time of year, which I understand that's very human, but I just don't ever want people to not have the opportunity to be present at all because I've seen that happen too. People will leave for the holidays and then they end up not being able to make it back to say goodbye, which is heartbreaking.

SPEAKER_01: 9:52

Absolutely. One of the things that you really provide is rituals around end of life, which I find so beautiful because I think we often we do that for usually. Um, you know, many cultures obviously have their own rituals around death and and but I it's not something that's common, I don't think. And and I really think that that's an important part of allowing people to grieve and to heal, right? Um do you want to do you want to speak a little bit on that?

SPEAKER_03: 10:29

I'd love to, and I think for that, you know, one of the beautiful things about being a veterinarian is what my clients have taught me.

SPEAKER_01: 10:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 10:37

And I think if anything, going through a more conventional viewpoint of end of life transitioning, because back then I did call it euthanasia, which I know is the term for it, but I just feel like sentimentally it doesn't feel right for me to term it in that way on a regular basis anymore. But I witness families creating beautiful ceremonies, whether they were religious, spiritual, you know, something personal. And that really inspired me to want to offer that to people as I, you know, acquired more tools in my toolbox. So I'm a sound therapist, I'm a Reiki practitioner, you know, I love and have a very strong relationship with crystals, and I've seen the response that animals have to crystals, essential oils, acupunctures. So there are so many options to create a peaceful environment, not only for our pets, but also for us. Because I think one thing that people fail to realize, and I know Mindy will speak to this, is the energetic connection we have with our animals is so strong. And I have witnessed on so many occasions, you know, obviously we're going through our own grief and our own emotions, but we have to serve as a grounding space for our pets to be able to have a smooth transition. And it's not, you know, not listening to your feelings or, you know, not being able to process them. It's just having them have a smooth transition be the focus and holding that space, whether that's breath work, something I have not been trained in, but I've kind of picked up along the way to help some of my clients that were really struggling as we went through it. So there's so many beautiful ways, you know, having people come and speak and give food offerings, share a story. There's just so many ways to honor them.

SPEAKER_01: 12:14

I love that. Um, Mindy, uh, do you find um hi? Do you want to introduce yourself a little bit um and tell us a little bit about what you do and how you support pet parents going through.

SPEAKER_00: 12:27

Um my name is Mindy Meiring, and by training, I'm a licensed therapist. And um for the last 15 years or so, I've been doing um my work has been more in the realm of coaching and teaching mindfulness, writing. And I also um after the loss, the first dog that um I lost in 2017, um started writing a book about pet loss and became really interested in, I had supported lots of humans in their um grief as they went through significant losses and life transitions. But um after experiencing that and how deep the grief was, I really wanted to uh support other pet parents who were experiencing that kind of grief and loss. And um and so I started I started writing a book, and the book evolved into um a project that um actually I think is more suited to uh to people who are going through the grieving process because when we're grieving, our attention span is often so limited, right? We're so grief can be so destabilizing. And so I took um a lot of what I'd written and I put it into a deck called the Rainbow Bridge Pet Loss Deck, and it's um I love that 52 Ways to Heal the Heartache of Losing a Beloved Pet is what it's called. But then we experienced the loss of our other dog, Ellie, um, two years later. And she was my first dog. It was it was a really um, as I think probably so many of us who've experienced that, you know, that first pet that we had, right, when we lost them. It's a really um whether we had them for a short time or like Elia had her for 15 years, it's just uh so heartbreaking and painful. And so I picked up my book, dusted it off, and it and it turned into this deck. During that time, um, did some training and became certified as a pet loss and grief specialist with the Association of Pet Loss and Brevement. And really, I I feel like so much of my work now and where my heart is is in normalizing and validating pet grief in our culture and just offering um, you know, people who are grieving the loss of a pet ways to work with their grief. Um it's it's such a painful loss. So many people say that, you know, sometimes my clients will come in and it's almost like they they say it under their breath, like they they're a bit embarrassed, uh, you know, but it was harder when I lost my dog or my cat than when I lost, you know, and then they'll name a human level. And I'll say, it's okay. I, you know, I can't tell you how often I hear that. Um and just normalizing because these, you know, our our pets are they're members of our family. They're not just like family, they are, you know, in my opinion. So yeah, that's that's kind of where my work um has really the direction that my work has taken.

SPEAKER_01: 15:50

Yeah. Why, why do you think people carry shame or or a little bit of embarrassment around the loss of their beloved pet, around or sharing that loss with others? They feel like they can't fully, they feel like they can't fully share that loss with others, I think, in a way uh that they can, you know, the loss of a of a of a human family member or something like that.

SPEAKER_00: 16:16

Well, there's um, I think so many of us have probably experienced that maybe person who's not an animal lover or who hasn't had pets who've said, well, it's just a dog, right? It's just a cat, get another one. And there is that um some people do have that viewpoint. And so I think that can be part of it. And also just in general, in our culture, we aren't um great about doing grief. Yeah, we tend to run through it, want to skip over it, want to get over it, move on. And so I often will say to people, this is a very uh deep loss that you've experienced. It's okay to take your time and to really let yourself grieve this loss. This is animal companion was a significant part of your life. You had a really, you know, you had a special connection with them, shared so much love with them, shared so much life with them. It makes sense that we would grieve their loss so deeply. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 17:20

Mindy, I have a question for you too. One thing I've always wondered is is there something to not that our pets are our children, but for many of us, we provide such a level of care to them almost beyond what we even extend to ourselves in some situations. Is there something, I guess, even like psychologically, along with that? It just because I hear that all the time as well. This was harder for me than losing my dad or my mom, or you know, like a very, you know, large presence in their life. And people do feel embarrassed. And I say the same thing. You I can't tell you how many times I hear that. And usually what I present to them is, you know, these are beings that we share daily experiences with, and you're providing care for them. So being a caregiver, does that at all play into perhaps why it's so much more difficult to have that loss versus maybe a family member that of course we love them, but it's just a different type of relationship.

unknown: 18:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 18:16

Yeah. And I think, yes, I think that's absolutely part of it. And also, if you I think that we all probably will be able to relate to this, like the love that we share with our pets is such a pure, uncomplicated love. They really don't expect a lot from us. In fact, you know, I can think about times when I've um like, I'll trip over my dog, I obviously accidentally, or you'll do something. And the next thing I know, they're just sitting there wagging their tail at me. Um, you know, like I love you so much. I mean, they're so forgiving and just that love is so uncomplicated, I think, compared to, you know, our our human relationships, which are, I think, you know, for so many of us, we have we have like a lot of us have very, you know, a lot of people in our lives that we love, but human relationships can just be more complicated, a little bit more complex.

SPEAKER_01: 19:18

They're there with us through our our hardest times and our best times, and they are supportive and unconditionally loving us along the way. I think is is probably one of the without judgment. With some of our dogs may jum judge us a little bit, but but for the most part, without judgment. I think I have a few dogs on the case.

SPEAKER_00: 19:39

I was, you know, I was just thinking that could be I was just thinking there's yeah, we don't, you know, so often it's like they're not judging us, they don't really care about how much money we make or, you know, all the things sometimes that um humans tend to get caught up in, right? And success, it's like they don't, you know, they don't really care. They just like to snuggle and they want their walk and their treats and they like to be with us. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 20:07

Right. Yeah. So um for those of us that, you know, we're approaching the holidays, I think there's two different perspectives. One is there's a lot of us that around this time it brings up a lot of kind of a heavy reminder of those that we've lost. And I think that's even more so true for pets. I know one trend that I've noticed that I think is so beautiful is including pets in Dia de los Muertos. So I've seen a lot of people honoring those that have been lost. And I, I mean, I've seen these altars where it's humans and animals equally. So, you know, because that's almost the start of the season, what are some tools that people can use if they find themselves feeling very heavy and, you know, having, you know, especially for people that suffer from mental health issues, especially, like how what are some management tools that they can use to prepare themselves for the heaviness of the holidays?

SPEAKER_00: 21:04

I love that question. Um, first of all, I want to just comment on something. I someone recently sent me a link to this beautiful image and post. And I guess in uh Mexico before the Dios de los Muertos, there is uh there's a day of the dead for animals, specifically for animals. So I'm gonna do an altar for our our the dogs that we didn't know that here on that day. Yeah, I'll see if I can find that and and share that with you. But um I think it's so true the holidays can be such a heavy time of year when we've experienced um the loss of a pet or really any type of significant loss. And so one thing is I think the first thing that I often say to people is, you know, remember that your grief matters. And one of the cards in my deck is honor your grief. And just remembering that it's okay to take care of yourself, to give yourself what you need, to let those tears flow when and if they come. And certainly um in those first weeks and and months after the loss, it can, you know, the tears can be frequent. Um allowing those. Um I think planning in time for self-care. And sometimes that is like really taking out your calendar and saying, I am gonna schedule like an hour or I'm gonna set aside this time to um whatever it is for you that feels nourishing. I think self-care is so, you know, looks different for for each of us. I know for me, after um, I had lost most of our um, the loss of both of our dogs, being in nature was particularly healing for me. And so as much as I could, I would get outside and take long walks. Um I think you know, we're we're uh having this conversation um as Thanksgiving week here in the US begins, and gratitude can be such a huge uh support as we're grieving. And um I think sometimes we it it can, you know, as we're grieving, there's that heaviness and that tendency to really get caught up sometimes in our grief. And I like to kind of think of like two outstretched hands when I'm thinking about grief and gratitude, that we can hold our grief over here. We don't have to go, you know, we don't have to push it down, but we can also hold gratitude in our other hand and pay attention to um things that are going well in our lives. Or sometimes what I'll say to people is maybe notice what kind of support is showing up for you.

SPEAKER_02: 24:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 24:05

What kind of support? Maybe a friend that's reaching out, or you know, maybe you have a pet loss support group that you've been going to, or just someone that cares that, you know, is texting you to check in and see how you're doing, noticing that, but noticing and paying attention, it's really a mindfulness practice, like trying to pay attention to what's going well and you know what are things in my life that I feel grateful for. That can also be a support. Um and then I another thing that I think can be so helpful is to think about how you can include your pet that you've lost into either existing holiday traditions and rituals or maybe create new ones. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 24:59

Um I love that.

SPEAKER_00: 25:01

Yeah, it could be maybe creating an ornament with their um, you know, their photograph and name that you hang each year, or maybe you light a candle each night during the holiday season in their memory. Um, there are different ways you could you could create your whatever. I always say like whatever feels meaningful to you, and you know, do that and think about how you might incorporate that into your holiday this year.

SPEAKER_01: 25:28

Do you have any suggestions on how or any tools? When we're when we head into the holidays, we're often faced with lots of family members, we're often faced with you know a lot of social times, and we may be feeling overwhelmed, we may be feeling that deep grief during those times. How do we how can we function um during those those family holiday times and and how can we ask our friends to help us um get through those times together? Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00: 26:04

It makes perfect sense, and that's a great question. I think um one of the things you can do is to plan ahead, to think about what are the commitments that I have or might have, who will be there. And do I have the bandwidth? Do I really have the bandwidth and the energy to do that this year? Um there might be gatherings or things that you say no to. And I always kind of like I just you know, hand people a metaphorical uh permission slip and say, you have permission to say no. It's okay, you know, if you really feel like it's it's gonna be um too overwhelming or you're you're not up for it, it's okay to say no to some things. And the other thing that I think people can do is um, you know, have conversations ahead of time with loved ones, with their family, with friends, and say, I am really struggling right now. I'm really, you know, I've just lost my pet. I'm in the um throes of grief, and I'm really having a hard time. I don't know how I'm gonna feel when this dinner rolls around or um this event, and I'd like to come, but I just want to let you know that I'm I may need to bow out if I'm not feeling well that day. So kind of giving yourself permission to change, to say no, to change your mind. And I think communicating with friends and family can be really helpful, letting them know just kind of where you're at um and what you need. And that kind of segues into what you're asking about how do we support people who've lost a pet? And you know, I think one thing we can do is just is acknowledge the loss. Say, I am, you know, I I can't imagine what you're going through right now, right? Because we we really, even if we've lost a pet, we haven't been through the loss that they're experiencing. We didn't, we weren't on that journey with the pet they've lost. Um, and we can just say, I really can't imagine what you're going through right now. Is there anything I can do to support you? You know, letting them know I am here, if you really mean that, right? So it's really important, like if we offer to them be able to follow through. And you might even say, like, I'm available if you want to text or if you want to call, or you might say, you might even think about specific things that given what you know about that person, they might um that might be helpful for them. You might say, maybe if they have other pets, you might say, would it be helpful if I came and walked, you know, your other dogs um this week just to give you a break? Or would you like me to bring you a meal, you know, and offer things. Um I think just acknowledging, you know, saying it makes sense. It really makes sense. Like if they um going back to the earlier in our conversation, you know, when some people say, Oh, it was just a dog, but it wasn't, and just saying, you know, I mean it makes sense that uh you're grieving so deeply. It really makes sense that you're struggling. Like you had such a um, you know, you had such a strong connection with and you can name their pet. Um, it just makes sense. So, and saying the pet's name, if if you knew their pet, I think it can also be really lovely to um just to to say, wow, you know, I I really cared for or loved, you know, um I'm just gonna use my dog's name that I lost Ellie. You could say I really I really loved and cared for Ellie too. And and you know, I remember that one time when she and sharing stories about them. That was so meaningful, like to my husband and I when people sent us um notes after we'd lost our dogs and they shared memory their memories of them. I think that that can be really meaningful, also. Yeah, I love that.

SPEAKER_03: 30:35

I think one other thing that's come up for me in my work, too, that kind of echoes what you're saying, Mindy, is you never really understand the relationship that people have with their pets. And when I'm in a situation, and for me, most of these families that I'm assisting, this is the first time I've met them. So I'm walking in, they don't know me, but the amount that people will open up and share is so beautiful and touching. I've had people share with me that this happened a few months ago. This um young woman, she's probably in her early 30s. The dog that I was helping transition had literally, she had tried to commit suicide, and this dog had broken through a window and gotten help. Like she was like, I would physically not be here if it were not for him. People that have lost their spouses or one of their children, and like that is the dog that connected or the cat that connected them. It's like their last piece of them. It's like reliving the grief of that other loss all over again. And so just knowing that coming in with like compassion and understanding, and maybe if you can't understand, even if you don't view pets in maybe the same way that the three of us and a lot of us do, just knowing that the support that they provide to their humans is immeasurable. It truly can be.

SPEAKER_01: 31:55

I know for I have not personally experienced the loss of my own dog other than uh when I was a child. And I think this loss will be, and that was devastating, but I think this loss, when it happens in 35 years, he's 16 right now, um, will be profound. And I'm trying to prepare myself because yeah, as you were talking, you know, I for me, my dog is my I call him my soul guide. I mean, he came into my and I'm gonna get emotional talking about he came into my life and just really changed it for the better. And he has really been there and been kind of my rock and guided me, and I've guided him and he's helped me build my business. I mean, he's he's he's you know, he's taught me about dogs and I've taught him to be, he's taught me to be to feel comfortable and safe around dogs, and I've taught him to be comfortable and safe around humans. I mean, we just have this incredible bond and and I don't know if it makes sense to anybody else, but it makes sense to me. So, and that's I think what people have to respect and have to understand about people's connections with their animals.

SPEAKER_03: 33:08

So definitely. And I think the other thing, Mindy, that I would love for you to share too is you know, I like Charlotte, my dog is older and I'm constantly trying to prepare myself as much as I can. So, what are some things that people can do, you know, as their pets are entering into a state of terminal illness or even as they get older, like how can we prepare ourselves? Almost like a pre-bereavement sort of support.

SPEAKER_00: 33:38

Yeah. I started asking myself that question too a couple years before we um both of our dogs died, or older, our senior. We have two younger dogs now. But um, I think from an emotional standpoint, I don't know that we can prepare ourselves. And you know, it it's at least from what I have found in in just you know, conversations with other people, it's really hard to know exactly how you're going to meet that moment until you are there. And then that grief takes a life of its own. But I think that when we know our pets are um, you know, have a terminal illness, we know our time is limited with them. I think one of the sweetest things that we can do is just offer them our genuine presence and really spend as much quality time as we can with them. I remember when um Ellie was getting older and she was uh a really feisty Kennishnauser terrier mick, like feisty, and as she got floated. I mean, there's like a million stories I could tell you about this dog. I was at the vet with her all the time. She was always getting into scrapes and trouble, and um, but she was so much fun. She was she was just the like the greatest dog. And um she slowed down a lot though. She started to lose her hearing, and I could tell she started to get a touch of dementia and have physical issues um more and more that were slowing her down. And so her quality of life was still pretty good. We kept good tabs on that. But in the last few months of her life, one of the things that I would do, because I'm the early riser in our family, and she couldn't get up the stairs anymore to come upstairs and sleep next to our bed. And so we let her sleep on a dog bed downstairs so she could get in and out. The dog door was um on the first floor. And so I would get up early in the morning and come downstairs and make coffee, and then um we had a little couch next to our fireplace. I would turn on the fireplace and just kind of do my morning quiet reading and meditation right there. And I would just have, she would lay on my lap or next to me for that hour. And it was really precious time that I will always carry with me. So I think anything we can do like that, you know, maybe it's taking your um animal, maybe it's taking your dog on walks in their favorite spots if they're still able to do that, or you know, sharing their favorite foods, but just spending that quality time with them, I think is one of the greatest gifts we can give them and ourselves. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 36:34

And then I know one thing I hear a lot of people expressing is guilt. I should have done more, I wish I would have known sooner. And then actually, with the example you were just giving, you know, for those that maybe can't be as flexible with their schedules or their life. Right. I guess just acknowledging the fact that doing your best is good enough. That's one of the things I share a lot. But yeah, is are there any other kind of words of wisdom or anything you would have for people in that position that maybe are really having trouble, you know, working through the stages of guilt? I feel like, or stages of grief, excuse me. I feel like guilt and anger are at least some of the two that I've seen people really have a hard time moving through sometimes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 37:21

Yeah. I think that guilt is probably the most common emotion. And even though I felt like we did, you know, everything we could for our two dogs, I still felt guilt, you know, like, oh, you know, um, I felt guilt that they had to suffer at all, you know, at the end of their life, even though it was fairly minimal. And I think that um we just want to do, we don't want our pets to suffer. And so there's always, to me, it seems like people always struggle with that question. Um, since rarely don't I I don't often hear of people saying that their pets died in their sleep. Usually the choice, they have to make the choice to euthanize them. Um, and there's that struggling with that, those questions of did I do it too soon or did I wait too long? And I think normalizing that for people and saying guilt is normal, and this is something that almost, you know, that most people struggle with. And you did the best that you could reminding people of that. And I think reminding ourselves, like I, you know, I had to remind myself of that and really offer myself a lot of compassion and say, you know, sure, in hindsight, you might have done this differently or that, but in the moment, um, I think we are all showing up and doing the the best that we can for our pets. They give us so much, and we're trying to do the best we can to care for them. Remembering that, reminding ourselves of that, um offering ourselves compassion, you know, around the choices that we've made can be really helpful trying to suspend that judgment as much as we can. And one thing, um, like one of the cards in my deck um is has a picture of a dog on it. And it it's called the the title of it is what would they say? And um it's really about tuning in and when you're having a difficult moment saying, What would, you know, what would you if your pet could speak to you like from you know, from beyond, from from wherever they are. I love that. Yeah, spirit speaking to you, what would they say? What would they say? And that can often a lot of times when I ask people that, you know, there are tears and they'll say, Oh my gosh, they'll say, My God's telling me like to. Stopping so hard on myself, or that it's okay. They know that you know, they know you they know I loved them and they know that um I was doing the best I could. So sometimes just like tuning in and um or even asking yourself, like uh when you're having a difficult moment, like um, if this was my best friend, what would I say to them? Right? That can be really helpful because it can be so hard on ourselves. And so just trying to take a step back and offer ourselves a little compassion and kindness can be helpful in those moments when we're working with the guilt. And um, and yeah, I think anger is so common also because we it's like I think we're angry because we want our pets to live long, like we want them to live longer. They, you know, unfortunately, and we know this when we adopt them or bring them into our lives that their lifespans are shorter. But I think so often we get angry because we're frustrated they didn't live as long as we wanted them to, or there's different, there's so many different reasons, but that can be common. And then also maybe we could be angry if um, you know, I had I had a client earlier this year who uh had to go through a very difficult situation and use behavioral euthanasia.

SPEAKER_01: 41:27

Their dog was quite a tough one, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 41:30

And there was a lot of anger there too, just anger about around the situation and that they had to say goodbye, you know, too soon to this animal that had also been, you know, in many um ways very loving, but then also had displayed some pretty aggressive behavior towards young children. So you know, I think anger can take different forms and yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 41:59

It's a it's a I think that one's that one's much yeah, and that one's complicated because you you feel the guilt of of not just your pet being sick, but having to make a choice that you you somehow you've not done enough because somehow you couldn't fix the issue, even if you've called in a trainer, even if you've done behavior modification, even if you've done all these sorts of things. So that one, that one gets really, really tough. It's a tough, tough choice. Earlier on, you just you brought up um embracing, you brought up gratitude, and and I wanted to talk a little bit more about how we can embrace gratitude in the grieving process. And by that, did you mean do you mean, you know, like being grateful for the pet that we the time that we had with our pet, or how do we embrace gratitude when we're feeling so overwhelming, such overwhelming grief and and and probably a little bit of sometimes depending on the situation, you know? Just deep, deep sadness and disp, I don't want to say despair, but some people, you know, it might be really, really traumatic for so how do we find those moments of gratitude in during that time?

SPEAKER_00: 43:01

Yeah, and they might just be like little glimmers of gratitude, right? Um, I get it. I just had someone the other day said, I'm really having a hard time feeling grateful right now. And uh yeah, I'm like, well, I don't, I don't think you you don't have to force it, but um right, at least for I'll share my experience and what I see often being helpful to people. And yes, for me, in the beginning of my grieving process, it was helpful for me to recall everything I was grateful for about the moments that I had shared with my pet, everything that they brought to my life, um, the journey that we had shared together. And so often I was talking about taking those walks. And when I would take walks, I would really like I called them my gratitude, you know, walks. And I would really try and call to mind um those things that I felt grateful for, just recalling them, um, bringing that into my experience as well, um, as the profound, you know, sadness that that was there. Um gratitude, it could take the form of maybe sharing your gratitude, right? So um maybe they're your veterinarian or the pet hospice who helped you at the end of your pet's life. It might be writing a thank you letter to them. Or I remember being at least and taking them into our vet clinic um with a little note of thanks. And that was really it was meaningful to me. And of course, they you know they appreciated that. And um, or appreciating, you know, gratitude to other people that cared for your animal, maybe it was a groomer, pet sitters, other people, that could be one way of of um of bringing gratitude into the grieving process. And I will often say, if it's hard for you to say, um, like I'm uh, you know, uh we often talk about keeping a gratitude journal or you know, acknowledging what you feel grateful for. And if that just feels like, oh, I just I can't think of anything, you could use the the phrase um I heard this recently and I like this. I have. So I have food in my refrigerator, I have people in my life who care. I have um, you know, I I have a roof over my head and a warm bed to sleep in. Like I have, you know, what are the things acknowledging, um, and really that's a way of acknowledging um the presence of you know, kind of the the gifts in our lives that we often take for granted. Um, but that's another way. Yeah, and I just find that in in terms of like the how it can be helpful, it's that our minds are are wired to um kind of stick more to the negative, right? From a neurobiological perspective.

SPEAKER_01: 46:18

Like why is that?

SPEAKER_00: 46:20

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 46:21

I mean, it's that's a whole other podcast episode. Like, why is that? It's so tough to turn that around sometimes.

SPEAKER_00: 46:28

Rick, well, and I first heard this. Rick Hansen is a neuropsychologist, and he this has always stayed with me. He said our brains are like Teflon to the positive and Velcro to the negative. And we tend to, you know, yes, the negative things stick more, and it's from an evolutionary perspective, it's about survival, but we don't need that anymore. Um, we're not living in an age where like we're tigers are gonna eat us, but our minds still tend to glom onto the negative. So um, especially when we're grieving and we're in that place of like you were saying, despair, deep heartache, um, it can be helpful to kind of balance, help balance that out a bit with a practice like gratitude that helps us remember there are things in our life that um that are going well, also.

SPEAKER_03: 47:22

I think one thing too that I've seen really touch others and even those that are involving themselves in it is if you maybe can't find a way to be grateful in that moment, provide some sort of act of service to someone. So, one thing in my community is when one of us loses one of our beloved pets, we will usually donate to a cause that either has something to do with that pet in particular, like a breed-specific rescue or a shelter near them, or just some way of giving back, or we'll physically actually go do something together. Um, and I found that that's really, you know, it's always very emotional, but it's something that we can all remember and just know that, you know, there's a community of people supporting you, or just if you're one person that's going and spending time in a shelter where, you know, they're so in need of assistance right now, that I feel like if our pets could have an input for what we would be doing, it's spreading that love elsewhere. And that doesn't necessarily mean bringing a new, a new little one into your life right away, because that I know is a a very challenging consideration for a lot of people. And I always tell people, you'll know when you're ready. Or the other thing that I have found is I feel like a lot of times our pets will send us the individual when we're ready for it. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. So, Mindy, the the way that I met you, and one thing that I would love to talk about further is the deck itself because it is such a beautiful offering. And I'd love for you to talk a little bit more about how people can utilize it, because I think most people, when they see it, would think of it as being, you know, something to use perhaps after the loss to help with that post-loss bereavement and grief. But are there other ways that people could utilize that, the tool that you're providing them and almost like in preparation or just to help navigate?

SPEAKER_00: 49:25

Yeah. Well, I think, you know, when you mentioned earlier the term anticipatory grief, and that I think that the minute we know our pets have a terminal illness or are near the end of our life, we begin to grieve. And uh, and so that grief doesn't begin when they die, it's going on beforehand. So the deck can, I think that the tools and the practices and just the a lot of the reminders in um that are in the deck can be helpful as you're preparing um for that time um when your pet dies. And and you know, one thing that I've heard a couple of people say is that they started working with it a few months beforehand, and that then when the time came, they felt like it actually had given them some some tools that were really helpful to have in that moment and in those weeks after their pet's death when they were going through um that that time of more acute grief. So I think it can be helpful pre loss, and of course, after the loss of a pet. In fact, I had, as I was creating it, I made these prototype decks. So I would take the artwork um and I would I would literally like cut and paste the messages and put it on the back and make these decks and send that to people so that they could use that and then give me feedback. And um, so it was a win-win, right? They got to use it and have the benefit of using it, but then they also would give me feedback and um and I have one woman who's used it for almost three years and says that she still draws a card because she's still, um, even though she just adopted a new dog recently, um, you know, she waited for quite some time. And but she said, I still am, you know, I'm still grieving the loss of um my previous dog. And it's really helpful. It's part of my ritual to draw a card each day. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 51:37

I love that.

SPEAKER_03: 51:38

I think it is going back to mindfulness too. I love it. Because so much of what's in the deck, I mean, I feel like it can be applied outside of even the specific purpose for which you created it.

SPEAKER_00: 51:52

Yeah, I had one Betsy say that um they um one of the things that they do is in their weekly staff meeting, they draw a card because they like to talk about self-care. And so they said, you know, each week we um take one card and then we talk about that in our staff meeting. So it's really, it's I love hearing about all the different ways that it's being used. Um, and people will say, you know, the messages in here um can apply to really any type of loss. And many of them can. There's a lot that are, you know, that are that have that are more specific to pets because that's the the intent of this, you know, of this healing tool that I created, but they're also applicable to grief and loss in general. Yeah. So some people that are grieving humans that they've lost or going through other types of losses find that it's helpful in helping um them on those healing journeys as well.

SPEAKER_01: 52:52

And for those that are listening, can we be a little technical? What so how do we use so it's it's a it's a deck of car of cards that you created for grief and and bereavement. And do we pull one daily too? Do we pull one daily or just as we feel inspired to do so, just to remind us of gratitude or how what exactly?

SPEAKER_00: 53:17

Well, my recommendation, and there's a little card in the deck that um that offers guidance in terms of how I um when people use it, is to just close your eyes and think of the pet you've lost and draw a card each day. And if it resonates, that's great. If it doesn't, you can put it back and pull another one until you pull one that does feel appropriate for for whatever um, you know, your your um kind of um the place that you're in that day. And so some people tell me that they sit down and they read all of these cards when they get the day. And then they will just pull out a card or two that feels like most helpful to them that day or that week. Um and yeah, it's so there's no right or wrong way to use it. Yeah. Yeah. There's just no right or wrong way to use it. Those are that was my recommendation. And then I always say to people, use it in the way that serves you best. There's 52 different messages. And the reason I included so many was because we all grieve differently. And so I wanted to people um, or to offer people a variety of different coping strategies, tools, practices that um that they can use. And then there are also different ways that you can um ideas for honoring your pet's memory, and um, and then reminders, just reminders, kind of validations, like that, you know, we all grieve in our own timeline. There's no right or wrong way to grieve. Um there's a message called honoring your grief. We talked about the, you know, that at the very beginning. Yeah. Just taking time, allowing yourself the time that you need to grieve. Yeah.

unknown: 55:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 55:11

And kind of following up on that, I love the idea of honoring them after. So, of course, a part of my practice is the end-of-life transitions. But I think one thing that a lot of people don't consider and that I try to help guide as much as I can, is after they're gone, besides, you know, a lot of the things we've talked about, what are other ways that we can honor them, even physically? So I know this is a little technical, but it's of course something that we have to consider is with their remains, what do we do? And everyone has a very different feeling about that. But some of the things I just wanted to mention that I've seen that are absolutely beautiful is there are cremation jewelry, there are physical, I've seen planters with a succulent and then the remains go in part of it. I mean, it's going somewhere that was meaningful to you and spreading some of the remains and having some sort of small ceremony. There's just so many ways to really kind of think outside the box. And I will say Etsy is a really great resource when it comes to jewelry or any sort of physical keepsake. They there are so many beautiful artisans on there that are doing great things to honor both humans but also pets. Can we take advantage of those as well?

SPEAKER_00: 56:30

Yeah, Etsy's a great place. Um, I love all those ideas. One of the things I did, um I'll share this. Like a I think a photo collage can be really helpful too. Um that you and you can make it yourself, or you could do it like on a site like Snapfish or um an online site, but that can be really sweet. Yeah, doing something though, right? It's such a uh it's a way to honor their memory. And then it's also a way it's something that um I think in our in our culture we have so many rituals um and different ceremonies that to honor the the loss of a human loved one, but not so many for pets. So we get to we get to create. Yeah, we get to create our own, be creative. I love that. And Lindsay, you probably get to hear so many different ideas from people.

SPEAKER_03: 57:26

Yeah, I really do. And some of the ceremonies I've watched, I mean, are breathtaking. Like fresh flowers, I mean, people playing sound bowls, gongs, chanting, sharing, you know, for those that are religious or spiritual, sharing passages. And yeah, it's really it's it's been a very privileged experience to be able to assist families and and their furry loved ones, but just being able to experience that much love.

SPEAKER_01: 57:59

Well, you guys, I so appreciate this conversation. Um, and Dr. Lindsay, thank you for asking such wonderful questions. And thank you for joining me. And Mindy, thank you so much for all the beautiful words that you brought to the table. I really enjoyed this conversation. Thank you both so much. Thank you, Charlotte. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Baru podcast, and a special thank you to Dr. Lindsay Wendt for joining me as my special co-host today. I hope to have her back for more. I've put links in the show notes for Mindy's offerings. And if you have a story of King Eine Companionship that you'd like to share with me or question or even a comment, I would love to hear from you. You can email me, Charlotte, at thebaroo.com. And don't forget to follow us on Instagram at BaruPodcast. All right, you guys, let's chat in.