Building A Better Bond With Your Dog Through Choice And Clear Boundaries with Irith Bloom

Irith Bloom is back to chat how shifting dog training away from control and toward trust, choice, and real communication can help our dogs feel safer and behave better. We dig into why over managing puppies can create anxiety, how to read canine body language, and which simple skills make everyday life easier .  Letting puppies explore safely instead of bubble wrapping their world and why choice and control lower stress and build resilience. We also chat how to notice stress signals like looking away and lip licking and what relaxed body language looks like when trust is real. 

Irith is co-founder of the Freak’n Awesome Dog Project, which helps people live the life of their dreams with their dogs. She is an education junkie with a long list of letters and credentials after her name, most notably certified professional dog trainer and certified dog behavior consultant.

https://thesophisticateddog.com/

Transcript

Trust Over Control

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Hi, and welcome to the Peru. I'm Charlotte Bain. You know, a lot of us grow up thinking training is all about getting our dogs to listen, to do what we want them to do. But what if building a great relationship has less to do with control and more to do with trust? Urite Bloom is back, and she is a certified dog trainer and behavior consultant who has spent years helping people better understand the dogs in their lives. I love her approach because it's not about forcing dogs to behave. It's about learning to communicate, building confidence, and creating a partnership that works for both ends of the leash. We talk about why trust matters, some of the biggest mistakes that people make without even realizing it, and a few simple shifts that can completely change the relationship you have with your dog. So let's just jump into this chat.

Loss, Grief, And Dogs At Home

SPEAKER_01 0:56

Do you have I'm I'm only asking, like, do you have dogs in your home right now?

SPEAKER_00 1:03

I have in my home right now. I have Pippa. Really? Yeah. And I can't believe she's not barking right now. She's asleep somewhere. That's great. Yeah. So I have Pippa. Hopefully she won't hear her name being mentioned. I know, I know. So yeah, so Pippa's still around. I told you, I mentioned I lost seven dogs last year. So which was crazy. All of them were seniors and super seniors, except for Doug. That was a shock that came quickly.

SPEAKER_01 1:29

And he was how old was I was trying to figure that out.

SPEAKER_00 1:32

I feel like he was eight. Yeah, which seems still kind of young. For I mean a big boy like that, but yeah, it came on like with an it like he he had liver. Something was going on with his liver and it came on quickly. Um I mean in hindsight, it was probably developing over a long period of time. But he's always kind of been a slow dude and you know, solid stock. So enchants passed, as you know. Yeah. And Murray used to be.

SPEAKER_01 2:03

Although Murray, like that. I feel like life was hard for Murray.

SPEAKER_00 2:08

Murray was very hard for Murray. But he was such a trooper. He was life was harder for all of us than it was for Murray. Well, that's fair. I mean, he kept on rolling. Um, but he was 14. Like he had a decent it his happened relatively quickly, also. He wasn't young, so he and in in his old age, his older years, he did get a little bit more chill because he couldn't hear anything.

SPEAKER_01 2:34

I was wondering. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:37

And so, like, all of the the sound sensitivity he was just what ev. Yeah. So that was that's kind of nice. Yeah. So yeah. But everybody's getting new puppies now. So how about Jagger? How's Jagger? I think Jagger did pass. Yeah, actually, Jagger got can't Jagger had cancer. I forgot about Jagger. Jagger had uh like lymphoma or I think some sort of a blood cancer. I couldn't. Some sort of cancer popped up not too long ago. I think they did several treatments and then Yeah. But yeah, I'm I'm fairly certain he passed because I have not seen them. And last time I saw them out walking him, they said it wasn't looking good, and they had tried a bunch of stuff. So and I he had a walker. I haven't seen Matt with this walker. Um uh human walker. He wasn't he wasn't pushing a walker. Although a Fanny dog could do it, Jagger could have done that. Yeah, so so I don't hundred percent that I should check in with him. Yeah, I don't hundred percent know what happened there, but um, yeah, I did know he had cancer, so he probably I reached out to everyone around the time of the fire, but I haven't been that good about following up. You know, I'm gonna say that it's it's interesting, and I'm not in the woo-woo in me is like, you know, n everyone seemed relatively fine before the fires, dog wise. And then I'm just curious if like all the stress and all of the moving around and taking on your humans' emotions and stress and all those things, you know, contributed to the demise of a lot. Because it was really stressful for a lot of the animals during that time. And I was able to take a lot of my clients' dogs, but yeah, because a lot of the my dogs got sick. I mean, they're again, they were all old, but it accelerated. It feels like that year, last year accelerated the decline, you know.

SPEAKER_01 4:28

So I would not be surprised at all if that was the case because it was really it was stressful, it was awful.

SPEAKER_00 4:34

Even if you didn't lose your home, like yeah, it was all crazy town for a long time. So heavy and intense.

SPEAKER_01 4:40

And I and I do think that it would have affected the dogs absolutely. Like you said, they pick up on our stress, it's their own stress. Everything smells even weirder to them than it feels to us.

SPEAKER_00 4:52

Yeah, you know, also all the yards are, you know, most of their yards burned. So it's like even though their homes didn't burn, most of their yards burned, and like, you know, yeah, it was just nothing was quite the same after that, you know, and still getting back on track. But so yeah. So anyway, so that was that. But we're moving forward. Yeah, I've got two new puppies coming. So actually, Doug's Doug's family got a new puppy. She's so cute. She is a great Pyrenees puppy. She is for five months now, and she's literally the sweetest dog. Oh, that's nice. She's so smart, and she just listens and she's like gentle. I mean, so far she's only five months, but she's just like she's such a sweet potato. So I think Doug sent her that one.

unknown 5:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:39

Well, we should probably jump into what I wanted to talk to you

Reframing Training As Partnership

SPEAKER_00 5:43

about. You're a fan favorite, so I wanted to make sure I got you on this new season of the podcast. And I thought we could talk about something that's very close to your heart and also really your wheelhouse. Because I was thinking about when I'm getting all these new puppies, like when people think about training their dog, I think the first thing that comes to their minds is like wanting to control a behavior that they're doing. You know, they want their dog to sit, they want their dog to do what they want, essentially. They want their dog to sit, they want their dog to stay, not bark, not jump, you know, go to sleep when they want them to go to sleep and all the other things. And I think the natural instinct is to control that behavior. And I'm wondering, since we are focusing on the human-animal bond this season, what what does that what is a better way to look at that from the dog's point of view? Like what that makes sense. Like, yeah, what how can we build the trust with our dogs and how can that improve getting the outcome that we want when we're looking at behaviors versus just controlling the behavior that we want, telling our dog what we want them to do and like you know, and all that jazz, understanding that a little bit more.

SPEAKER_01 6:58

Yeah. So I'll say two things. First of all, I think especially if you have a puppy, yeah.

Why Bubble Wrapping Creates Anxiety

SPEAKER_01 7:05

I think it's a real mindset shift because puppies are I mean, let's face it, they're they're like messy. I mean, they're literally messy. Yeah. But puppies are kind of a mess. Your household becomes a mess when you have a puppy because like it's it's really hard to control everything. So let's we'll start by talking about puppies, then we'll go to the slightly easier scenario if I've adopted an adult dog. Right now, or with puppies, people have this tendency to want to just box the puppy in. They kind of like, we'll keep him in a crate, we'll keep him in a pen, we'll keep him away from everything, we'll make sure that he, you know, he only goes out to potty and never goes out and does anything else. We won't let him sniff around in the grass because who knows what he'll get into. And all these things we do with our puppies that we it's like it's almost like we wrap them in bubble wrap. Right. To the point where it's too tight for the puppy. And what I've noticed is that the puppies that we had 30 years ago were generally much less likely to have anxiety and fear issues than the ones that we're raising today. And I think part of that is the bubble wrap. So I want to sort of start with the puppy part. I think that in our effort, we're like, oh, I want to form a bond with this puppy. I want to make sure the puppy is safe, I want to make sure nothing bad ever happens to the puppy. We get so out of control with that that we don't let anything happen to the puppy. Interesting, yes. And there's two things that happen with that. One is we don't really let the puppy develop a personality like on their own. We're constantly steering them. And so we don't really get to know who they are, which makes it a little harder to form the kind of bond that I really want with a dog. And the other thing is then we limit their exposure to things and we limit their ability to choose what they do. So what we know from research, and I'm talking about decades of research in dozens of different species, is that when animals don't have control over things around them, they are under more stress. And when they're under more stress, they tend to think less clearly, and when they think less clearly, they make sometimes not the smartest decisions. Sure. Now, a puppy doesn't really know how to make decisions very well. Anyway, they're just learning about the world. Right. But if we don't let them go out and learn about the world, then they don't learn how to make decisions. So, you know, it's sort of like and I I'm I realize that parenting is done differently today. But it's sort of like if you have a child and you never ever let them try something that they might fail at, then they never learn A how to turn around and say, okay, well, that didn't work, so let me try something different. Right. And B, they don't learn how to deal with failure. And both of those are really important skills. So from a puppy standpoint, I want my puppy to be able to deal with sometimes I don't get what I want. Sometimes I can't get to the thing that is interesting to me. Sometimes I can't solve the puzzle, whatever the puzzle is. And I also want them to be going out and trying to solve those puzzles. But what we tend to do as puppy parents is we tend to say, let me help her with this, let me open the toy for her, or let me make sure that she doesn't accidentally trip over this thing because she might get hurt. But if it's, I'm not talking about like, don't drop your puppy off a cliff. Like I'm not, but there are reasonable things that if if the puppy accidentally bumps into the wall because she's doing this while she's walking forward, I know these dogs. I've met these dogs. You know, that's a learning opportunity. Oh, if you don't look where you're going, you might bump into the wall. Right. And 999,999,999 times out of a billion, nothing bad is gonna happen. Right. So I think that we have this tendency to say, I'm just gonna control every little thing, not necessarily even in my puppy's behavior, but about my puppy's world to make sure that nothing bad ever happens. But if nothing bad ever happens, then first of all, nothing good really tends to happen either. Nothing that that's exciting to them because they're you're sort of curating their whole life. And they don't learn how to deal with bad things happening. They don't learn the resilience that they need. And somewhere in there, you wind up with an animal that it's almost like I don't trust you enough to let you be your own, to be your own creature, to be your own being. And so to get back to the bond, because I've kind of moved away from it a little bit, in the end, what I want, I want to form a, I think of it almost like a friendship, a relationship with my dog where I know what their sense of humor is like. And I know what stuff really jazzes them up, and they're like, whoa, I love this thing, and I know what stuff they find boring. And the only way I'm going to learn those things and get that deep understanding, that sort of strong bond, the intimate, and I mean that in the sense of emotionally intimate, that intimate connection is by really getting to know them. And if I'm constantly telling them what to do, don't do this, yes, do that, go here, don't go there, then I don't get the opportunity to learn those things about them. And I also think this is why we wind up with these really, unfortunately, fairly anxious dogs being much more common than they used to be, is because we don't let them control anything in their lives. And so they've got all this stress because things are going to happen to them. And then when once in a while we're not there to pave the road for them and make sure that nothing bad happens, they have no idea how to deal with it when an obstacle comes along in their path. Right. So I'm a really big fan of stand back and let the dog be as much as possible. And of course I'm going to intervene when there's danger. I'm not letting my dog run out into the street. Right. But I am gonna let them sniff, I mean, once we've got veterinary clearances and all those things, I am going to let them sniff the grass and chew on sticks and as long as it's not in someone else's yard, dig around, yeah, explore the world. Look for stuff and explore the world.

Let Adult Dogs Reveal Needs

SPEAKER_01 14:07

Yeah. And the same can be true for adult dogs. So when you bring in, especially if you've adopted an adult rescue that has a a history, they have some background, they lived somewhere, you often you have no idea where or what they went through, but they've they've got a history and they probably have likes and dislikes, and they probably have behaviors that you don't necessarily love, they don't know the rules of your household and all those things. Yeah. But what we tend to do is control them so tightly that I think what sometimes happens is again, we don't really get to know them, and our relationship winds up going in a different direction than it would if I kind of said, you know what, let me let me watch you for the next three days. What do you do? Now that you're in my home, what seems to interest you? What seems to worry you? Where do you need my support? Instead of me just walking in and saying, I'm gonna support you 100% of the time, right? I say, where can my support be helpful to you? And where maybe can you actually handle it on your own without me coming in and micromanaging everything about you? And all of this, I think about my my favorite human relationships are not the relationships where someone's controlling me, right? If anyone listening to this has a controlling parent or someone else controlling in their lives, you know that being with that person can be really annoying. I don't want to be that person to my dog. Yeah. I want my dog to be like, you know, when I'm struggling and I go and I ask I read a question, she usually has a good answer for me. And if she tells me to go solve the problem on my own, I usually find that I can solve the problem on my own. She supports me, she makes me better instead of well, I'm not sure what I should do because mom always has opinions and mom is always micromanaging me. Right. So those are just some thoughts. It's a little, a little rambly. There's a lot in there.

SPEAKER_00 16:20

No, but those are just some thoughts. It makes first perfect sense. Um so so how do we apply that to like so let's say we're wanting Well, how does that show how does the trust show up when we're looking at our dogs? So how does the trust show up in their like body language? You know, like how how do we know that our dogs are A, starting to trust us, and B or this that's kind of a this is kind of a separate question. How do we know how can we identify where we're starting to control things versus like versus like um, you know, understanding and working on the bond, but while still like teaching them because we do want them to do certain things that we want them to do. So how do we do that without I guess being a bully or like, you know, understanding what they're capable of and all of that stuff?

Body Language That Signals Trust

SPEAKER_01 17:15

Right. So let's start with the body language part because I think that's actually the easier question in a lot of ways. You know, when working as a professional with other people's animals, one of the things that I see a lot, no offense to my clients, all of whom adore the animals who live with them, where they would not be reaching out to me for help, right? They adore these animals. But often I walk in and like if there was a word bubble over the mind of that animal, they're basically like, oh, thank God, someone who can actually listen and understand what I'm saying. Because their whole life, they're like, I'm communicating and nobody's listening because we don't necessarily know how to read the body language. So there's two sides to that. One is learn the body language of the species you live with. If you're living with dogs, there's a lot of dog body language resources out there. The things to really watch out for are signs of stress, which can be things as simple as looking away. That's not your dog being disrespectful. That's your dog saying, clearly, this situation is a little too much for someone. It might be, it might be for the dog, it might be for the human. And I just need to, can we tone it down? This actually means can we tone it down? Same thing, they'll lick their lips, they'll kind of go, Yeah, stress. And that's like, yeah, can we tone it down? I mean, if you're holding a treat out in front of them, they might lick their lips for the treat. But if you walk up to them and suddenly they lick their lips and you don't have any food on you, that's probably a wait, can we, can we just a little, just a little space? Right. All of those stress signals are really good to learn about because when you see them, that is your dog's way of communicating to you. I need a little more space, I need a little more time. We need to reduce the intensity of this situation in some way. The flip side is when you have a dog who has a lot of joyful body language, their muscles are loose, their ears are up, they're, you know, they've got a smile, because as Patricia McConnell says, dogs smile just like us. We just get distracted by the teeth and the fur, but it's a very similar facial expression. So the smile, all of those things, when you see those, that's telling you that the dog says, you know, I know you have my back. Yeah. And I can be relaxed around you. So you really want to see that relaxed body language. Now, am I relaxed around every person that I have a good relationship with 100% of the time? No, but those are some of the signs that you can look for, is that the dog seeks you out and the dog is not afraid to walk away from you. Like if they're they're, you know, you're petting them and they're like, I'm done. Yeah. And they just walk away. Yeah. And they know that you will let them walk away. That's them having control over the interaction. Just like I might say to someone, I don't want to hug right now. Right. And if you don't listen to me when I say I don't want to hug right now, I'm gonna have a problem with you. Right. I don't want my dog to feel that way about me. I want my dog to be able to say, you know, you've petted me long enough, and I want to go and be in my own room for a little bit. Right. So the thing to look for, the thing where we can really help build that trust is the communication. And all of the body language we just talked about is that communication. And another sign that I see when someone has a great relationship with the animal they live with, is that the animal is communicating very consistently and they're paying attention. And then when you the nice thing about it is it's a two-way street. If I listen when my dog says back off, then my dog is a little more likely to listen when I say back off, if that kind of makes sense. It's like we're having a conversation now, and it's not that you never listen to me. You do listen to me. And it's okay if sometimes the answer is no, I can't do what you want right now. That's fine. That's part of why I want puppies to learn frustration. The answer is not always going to be yes. But I don't mean I want the puppies to learn frustration. I mean I want the puppies to learn to deal with frustration. Because sometimes the answer is going to be no. Yeah. But just looking at every engagement you have with these nonverbal animals who don't have their vocalizations, sometimes can actually be really helpful, especially if you have like a northern dog. They're really chatty. But what's an example of a northern dog? Like a husky. But for most dogs, they're going to do most of that communication through their body. And if they realize, oh wait, you're watching. You just read my signal that said, Would you come over and scratch behind my ears? And then you read my signal that said, okay, that's enough scratching behind my ears. Then they're going to communicate with you more and more. And that's that foundation of trust. Right. When I say something, you listen. And that means that I have a little bit of control over my own life. For an animal who, let's face it, because our animals live in our homes, they don't have a lot of control. They can't just decide to go visit, you know, Marcy, the dog next door.

SPEAKER_00 23:02

Yeah. I mean, for the most part, they can't even go outside to go potty without our help. Right. Because we set it up that way.

SPEAKER_01 23:09

Yeah. And we do that for safety reasons and for societal reasons here in North America, especially if you live in an urban environment. Yeah. And and that's fine. That is what it is. Like we don't have full control over our lives as humans either. So there's a lot of restrictions on us. But the more we can monitor and respond appropriately to the communication, even if the response is to say, I hear what you're saying, I can't do that right now. That's still better than I didn't even realize you were saying anything. Yeah. You know? So all of that I think helps.

SPEAKER_00 23:48

Does that apply to like, you know, like that apply to like when we're when we're training and we are like, and the dog is like, I hear what you're saying, but I don't want to do this right now. Or like I hear what you're saying, but I can't do this right now. Like, how does that apply to actual like hands-on training, I guess?

Stop Training When Engagement Drops

SPEAKER_01 24:09

So I will say right now that my attitude when I'm training is if the dog is not enthusiastically engaged in the training, I stop. Okay. I have a great video somewhere of a dog walking away from me in the middle of a hand targeting session. Like hand targeting. This is not a difficult task for the dog. Just saying. So for people who don't know what's hand targeting. No, so hand targeting is basically hang on, I will use this is this is Wesley. Wesley is not real. Yeah. Oh hey, Wesley. I remember Wesley. Yeah, he's a he's a he's a go boy. He's very, very well behaved, doesn't communicate a lot. I have to. Does it not? One facial expression. One facial expression. He's a little stiff. Anyway, so hand targeting would basically be like I'd put my hand in front of his nose and he would come and tap, and then I would say, Oh, good job. And I would feed him uh, I don't know, a pad of post-it notes because that's a treat for him. Yeah. So I would like to put my hand down, he'd do this, I'd say good and hand him something, or I would just hand him the thing. So it's a really low energy, low effort behavior. Right. And the reason I'm pointing that out is because the more effort we're asking for, often the more the dog is likely to be like, okay, I'm sorry, we've done this eight times already, and I'm just tired. Right. But I have a video of a client dog where I was doing hand targeting and one of his favorite humans walked into the room. You can actually hear there's they have one of those chimes that goes when they open an exterior door. The exterior door opens, you hear the bing bong, and the dog just does not like like I don't even exist. He just goes off to interact with that person. I don't get upset, I don't try to call him, I say hi to the person who walked in because as a human being, that's the polite thing to do. Right. And then he greets her, and like 10 seconds later, he comes right back to me. So now I know he was enjoying the hand targeting training. He just got distracted for a minute. And I think as humans, we do the same thing, right? I mean, well, today we do it really badly with our phones. Like, I'm sorry, my phone is buzzing. Right. But you know, there are times when we disengage, it doesn't mean I'm necessarily completely done with you.

SPEAKER_00 26:29

Right.

SPEAKER_01 26:30

However, if the if he had walked away and then not come back, I would have been like, okay, training session done. Yeah. You know, I don't I don't need to make him do it when he doesn't want to, because he's not going to learn as well if he's not enthusiastic and engaged. Right. So that's another piece of letting go of the control and building the trust. I'm basically saying, you don't want to train right now. I can respect that. You know, you're you're a you're a good dog, and I'd rather not push it because the less I force it, the more enthusiastic you'll be next time. I find I have found that works really well over the years.

SPEAKER_00 27:09

It's just like us, pretty much. It's just like us. Like if I'm forced to do something, or you know, I'm just kind of like, okay, like, yeah, what's happening over here? But if it's something that I find enjoyable and I'm engaged with and, you know, find the person and I'm doing it with fun and all of those things, I'm more apt to want to do it and more apt to want to do it again. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 27:32

And that's actually in the long term gonna serve my training goals better. Because I don't have anything against training animals' behaviors like down or coming when called. But I'm they're good life skills. Yeah. Yeah, they're like yeah, but I'm not going to then micromanage my dog so that they're constantly having to do this, that, or the other. Most of the time, the way I deal with a dog or a horse or a cat or whatever animal I happen to be lucky enough to be interacting with is you do your thing, and if your thing involves engaging with me, great, let's engage, let's do some stuff. And then the only times when I would call on a cued behavior, like a coming when called or a down or whatever, is when I really need it for some reason. And that might be because, you know, apparently Marcy is the name of the day, because I used that for a dog earlier too. Aunt Marcy walks in the door, and Aunt Marcy's doesn't have very good balance because she's a little bit elderly. I might call my dog to me to make sure that my dog isn't weaving around Aunt Marcy's legs and possibly tripping her up. But it's not because I feel the need to control my dog. It's because I want to make sure everyone stays safe. Right. You did ask me to do that.

SPEAKER_00 28:47

But a lot of people want to I'll say this: a lot of people feel the need to control, like in situations like that, because they also because A, yes, they want them to be safe, but they're worried somebody else is gonna think they don't have control over their animal.

SPEAKER_01 29:02

Yeah. And I think that's such a it's a it's a really excellent point that you're bringing up.

SPEAKER_00 29:08

We might understand that the bond is important, but like like everyone else might not all they're doing is looking at this dog that's like, you know, not listening, I guess, or whatever, you know?

SPEAKER_01 29:21

Yeah. And I think it depends on what the dog is doing. And this goes back a little bit to the like why I like to let puppies like seriously, my attitude about puppies is interfere as little as possible, let them run around and do their own thing as little as much as possible. Because the puppies who are allowed to do that at a young age are actually much more relaxed and well-behaved adults. Interesting. I mean, it makes sense. Yeah, because they've they've gotten to explore all the stuff, they haven't felt like they were hemmed in all their lives and things aren't as exciting. They've gotten to I did this and I did this and I did. And yeah, I'm of course I'm really excited when Aunt Marcy comes in because I love Aunt Marcy. Yeah. But not every single thing is a big production in the animal's life. So one thing I'll say is the more you take this attitude of letting the animal have control over their own life, the less they're gonna tend to be frantic and annoying. Right. And in a situation where you really are worried about people sort of judging you or whatever, just make it worth the dog's while. You know, hey, we've got this lovely mat. You hang out on the mat, and I'm gonna throw you some food every once in a while. Right. And then I'm going to give you permission to go and greet, and you can go and greet, and then we'll have you back on your mat. But that's two hours out of your day. The other 22 hours of the day, I'm not controlling what you do. So, to the extent that I'm gonna use that control, like to keep my dog from running into the street or you still want to keep them safe.

SPEAKER_00 30:54

You still wanna like these are all like you still want to give them life skills. Yeah, keep them away from it. Let them hopefully they listen to you and like all of those things. We're not we're not dismissing any of that. Right.

SPEAKER_01 31:06

I just choose really carefully when I'm going to lean on those skills. Yeah. And if that means I'm having a dinner party and for six hours I need to be micromanaging my dog, I'll micromanage my dog for six hours. Right. But I don't want that to be what I'm doing the other six and a half days of that week. So it's not there's nothing wrong with teaching skills. There's nothing wrong with, you know, I I understand that feeling of I want people to think I'm a a responsible dog owner. And I know that Uncle Mark will think that my dog is really badly behaved if my dog comes and sniffs him or whatever. Fine. That's fine. Train for those situations, but train in a way that your dog finds really, really fun. Yeah. And then just don't apply that the other 99.99% of the time when you don't need that stuff. Because I think the the trap we fall into is we want to control the dog 24 hours a day.

SPEAKER_00 32:03

Yeah.

Four Skills That Solve Most Problems

SPEAKER_00 32:04

Well, I think, well, I think what I find with my clients at least, and people that I know, like you don't you're not thinking about those things until you're in the moment. So when Uncle Whoza Watsuk comes over and then your dog is doing all that, then you're like, oh my god, my dog is a hot mess, you know, I need to like I need to get on top of this, and then you double down on it, and then when they're when they're not in that situation, you kind of don't work on the behaviors that need to be worked on, I guess is what I'm saying. Yeah. So how do we incorporate that into like being prepared for those moments?

SPEAKER_01 32:41

So I think a big part of it is coming up with certain foundation behaviors that you just work on like literally a couple times a week. Yeah, I mean keep it easy, keep it you know, five minutes in the morning, five minutes in the night, another day that week. Things like lying down and staying on a specific spot. It could be a location in your home, it could be a towel or a bed, you know, like a dog bed or whatever. Yeah. A hand target, because you can use a hand target to get your dog to do almost anything. You can move them around with the hand target, right?

SPEAKER_00 33:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:20

A general recall. Come to me, come away from other things. These are all things that you're gonna want to practice, especially recall. You just want to practice it in the long term anyway. It's actually very important. Yeah. Yeah, very important and not an easy behavior to teach because fundamentally, you're always calling your dog away from something that they want. Totally.

SPEAKER_00 33:37

Another something that looks really tasty but poisonous.

SPEAKER_01 33:42

Exactly. And so, like, you really do want to work on those. And I believe that every dog should, well, one of the things I'm going to say is not even this is not something you would necessarily do routinely, but every dog should learn how to wear a muzzle because muzzles can save a dog's life, especially in veterinary contexts. It's much nicer if they're comfortable in a muzzle and then the vet vet staff feels more comfortable and everything goes more smoothly. And the other thing is every dog should know some kind of confinement, whether it's a crate or an X-Pen, or you're you're shut in the bedroom where your dog bed is, or in the if it's a cat, like in the bathroom with your litter box or whatever it happens to be. But think about some basic skills that will work in a lot of different situations. So one is when in doubt, just if if you have a dog who crates well, you should never crate a dog for more than about two hours, but put them in the crate for two hours while your guests are over. Your dog is so quiet and good in the crate. Right. That's a well-behaved dog, right? Right. Right. Or have them hang out on their bed and give them a chew toy or something to occupy themselves with so that they're not sort of bored while you're all doing the human chatty chatty thing. And then things like, can I call my dog to me? Do I have a hand target so that I can get my dog to get off of the couch if you know Aunt Marcy doesn't like to be on the couch with the dog, but my dog is allowed on the couch. So I recommend like finding the sort of behaviors that are really good bang for your buck. Yeah. If you would. And you get all this value and they apply in a lot of different situations. Right. So then people are like, oh, your dog is so well behaved, but you're really only using four behaviors. You don't actually realize that you're only using four behaviors. Right.

SPEAKER_00 35:34

Um, the the conf the confining uh confining your letting your dog get used to being in a confined space is so important. And I I was reminded of that even more during the fire situation because as everybody's trying to evacuate, like they're being like, you know, they're most of my dogs are not crate trained, I don't think. Well, that's not true. I think probably about half of them are crate trained, but yeah, that everyone had to move into a hotel or into like a you know spaces that they don't know, and like there's just like a high level of stress happening and and having that protection with the muzzle situation too. Like if your dog is stressed out, like they really benefit from being comfortable in a muzzle because it keeps everyone around them safe, new environments, new everything, um, and keeps them safe. And the the putting them in some sort of a confined situation or getting them used to that, like, you know, people had to put their dogs in like the bathroom of the hotel room, you know, like stuff like that. Like it's just like places that they don't know and they're not used to, you know. Um, I know that's an extraordinary situation, but those are like preparing for those bigs, those big moments. I mean we're getting a little off track here, but get preparing for those big moments, you know, that that potentially could happen, right? So yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:43

And both the you've you know, you made a really good point, both the muzzle and the crate. Yeah, I'm sorry, we Charlotte and I live very close to each other in Southern California, very close to where there was a massive fire last year. And you know, it's not just a palisade fire, yeah. Yeah, it's not just fires, it's floods, it's earthquakes we could be getting any of those things could put you in a position where your dog needs to be in a muzzle and in a crate, or your cat needs to be in a carrier. Yeah. Or your horse needs to trail her up voluntarily with insane things going on, but it's still, it's still a kind of confinement for horses. Yeah. And all of those things can really be life or death in that situation. If I can get my dog into a crate quickly and evacuate quickly, that might save our lives, literally.

SPEAKER_00 37:32

Right.

SPEAKER_01 37:33

So, yeah, those are really big things. And I think everyone should learn how to do those because also if your dog has some kind of catastrophic accident, yeah, the vet's gonna stick them in a cage at the vet office. So that's also confinement. So, you know, hopefully none of those things come to pass, but it's definitely good. Right. You asked earlier about control versus teaching. Yeah.

Boundaries Without Bullying

SPEAKER_01 38:01

And I think that this is there's this concept in parenting of, oh, I hope I get this right. Because two of the terms I know I know, but one of the terms I might get wrong. You can have an authoritarian parenting style, an authoritative parenting style, because why would we make the two terms sound different? That's just me editorializing here. Right. And then you can have a permissive parenting style. And it is not good to be authoritarian or permissive, it is good to be authoritative. Okay. And the authoritative is the one where you set boundaries and the boundaries are strong, and the boundaries are always the same.

SPEAKER_00 38:46

Okay. But you don't boundaries. Yeah. Yeah. They're just boundaries. I'm learning about boundaries for myself right now, so I really get it. Aren't we always? It took me a really long time to understand the boundaries that I needed to set for myself. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:00

It's hard. It's hard. The way we're socialized, it is actually hard to send to set boundaries. Yeah. There's nothing wrong with no meaning no. There's nothing wrong with saying, no, I'm sorry, you can't go out and dig in the mud and then come back into the house. Like that is not like it's a muddy day, and I'm not going to let you go out and dig in the mud. That's a that's a that's a hard line. Yeah. Fine. You know, as long as that's true with every family member, whenever it's been pouring rain. Yeah. Keep it consistent. Keep it consistent. That's totally fine. But there's a difference between that and sort of yanking your dog away from the mud out of nowhere, which would be more the authoritarian style. And then the permissive would be, oh, just go out in the mud, I don't care what you do, and having no boundaries at all. And that's also not helpful. And of course, I'm saying all of this in relation to dogs. We don't have the research on this in dogs. Okay. We do have the research on it in children. Okay. And there's a lot of good evidence for you want that balance of I'm here for you when you need me. Yeah. I will support you when you need support. Right. But there are certain lines that are hard lines. And everyone gets to set what their hard line is. Just make sure it's not too narrow of a box. Right. Right. So. But that's the sort of control versus teaching. I can teach you. I can house train you by taking you out regularly. Right. Then if you have an accident, I don't get all crazy and whack you with a newspaper, which I hope nobody is still doing. Because it's not going to help anything.

SPEAKER_00 40:38

That's a real 70s thing, I think.

SPEAKER_01 40:42

Steve White once said, you know, if the dog uh makes a, you know, has an accident and you take a newspaper, roll it up, and hit yourself over the head because you didn't take them out at the right time of the day. You know? Right. So yeah, I mean, you know, it's there's there's ways to teach. We don't potty in the house. How do I teach you we don't potty? I teach you we potty out here. Because I always want to teach what to do. Here are the places where you potty. There's a million of them. None of them are inside my four walls of my home. Right.

SPEAKER_00 41:12

And understanding that the learning process is a process. Like it takes time. Yes. It takes time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:18

And so it's the same thing with jumping on people. They're not going to just like one day wake up and be like, oh, I'm sorry. Jumping's not right. I'll stop jumping. That's going to be a process. The same thing is chewing on your furniture, especially if it's a puppy. Right. I like putting furniture in X pens. Like I literally put the couch in an X pen. Yeah. That makes sense. You know, so all of those things are ways that we can teach first by preventing the problem situation from even being there when possible. And also by explaining the boundary. Here's the boundary. Here's the boundary. Here's the boundary. And at some point they get the boundary. Right. As opposed to me rubbing their nose in the house training accident or yelling at them because they chewed on the couch. None of which is actually going to really help them learn what to do anyway. So that's the difference. Like it's when we try to grab those are situations where we're trying to grab control. We're so angry.

SPEAKER_00 42:18

Right. I was going to say that comes from us because we're frustrated that they're not getting what we want them to do. So we're frustrated, comes from a place of us being tired, frustrated, irritated, whatever else is going on with us. It's, you know, they just trigger that essentially.

SPEAKER_01 42:32

Yeah. And by doing what they do. Yeah. Yes. And it's totally human to get frustrated and irritated. And I, you know, I don't yell at dogs as a training strategy. Right. But that does not mean I never yell at dogs. Sure. Every once in a while. Were you having a yeah? I'm on my last nerve. Yeah. And then I'm like, oh, that was not helpful. That did not help. And they're just like, what are you doing? Yeah. Yeah, that's the thing is usually, usually the dogs that I live with, they're like, you're acting so strange. Okay, lady. Yeah, like what's up with you? But but yeah, you know, it's and the other thing to remember as you try to like building a bond by allowing more choice in your animals. Yeah. The thing to remember is just like for animals, less control means their stress increases, more control means their stress decreases. As we let go of our control, now we have less control, which means our stress is going up.

SPEAKER_00 43:28

Yes. You saying that we were letting go of control was making me start feeling stressed.

SPEAKER_01 43:33

Like, yeah. Interesting. It's like, okay, breathe through it. You're going to let the puppy wander around and trust that they're not going to destroy anything because you hid your Manolo Blonics in the closet in advance, right?

SPEAKER_00 43:47

Also make sure they don't eat anything that's going to hurt them. How do you balance that? Like eating. You just use your best judgment.

SPEAKER_01 43:53

I I balance the I I well, I balance the risk against the benefit. But the other thing is. Is like I'm the way I puppy proof, like there is nothing that I don't want the puppy to get into anywhere in their space. Right. Okay. When I'm out on a walk, if I notice that there's a broken bottle, like 10 yards before that broken bottle, I've changed directions. Right. I don't even want to get close. I don't want to be in the position where the puppy's like, oh, what's in that bottle? And I have to pull them away. Right. That makes sense. You know? And in the meantime, I teach them a leave it. And then maybe the next day, knowing that the bottle is there, we practice leave it while we walk by at a safe distance. Right. Farther than the leash can reach. Right. Yeah. So many different ways to do this. I could talk about this for hours, which I know Charlotte knows.

SPEAKER_00 44:42

Okay. So all right. So I guess in closing, um, this was great and helpful and wonderful as always. And I thinkwise. Uh I know, I can't believe we haven't spoken in like two years. Um what? Yeah, because it's been two years since the podcast went on hiatus and then the hot fires hit and then chance pat. It was just like one thing after another. Um my guest, my clothing, and we've already touched on it a little bit, but just like so if someone wants to be a better companion for their dog, to understand their dog more, to have a better relationship, where should they exactly begin?

Start By Observing Your Dog

SPEAKER_01 45:18

Start with observing. Okay. That is the number one thing to do. And I think it's something that's really underrated. Just pay attention. Yeah. And that doesn't mean that you can't interact with your dog. Right. But pay attention while you do. Does does he always does he go like this when you reach out to pet him? Like that that's a signal. Right. That's a signal. It's like the it's like the kid who's on just like, oh, I want to give you a big kiss, and the kid's like this, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Boundaries. Yeah. And so like pay attention to those kinds of things. Pay attention to what brings your dog joy because you can use that stuff to convince them to do things that you would like them to do.

unknown 46:01

Right.

SPEAKER_01 46:02

Right. That's great. Yeah. So just observing, and it's not like you don't have to. This goes back to the like every once in a while you're gonna lose it and yell. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You don't have to be observing every single second. Right. But if you notice you're not observing, give yourself a pat on the back for realizing that you weren't observing. Right. And then observe, you know, what's my dog saying now? Hey, I watched that video. Am I seeing that body language signal that they were talking about of blinking rapidly or whatever it might be? So like think about what your dog is saying and then try to respond appropriately. And it helps if you also try to be consistent in how you behave and respond so that the dog has a really good chance to learn how to read you.

SPEAKER_00 46:49

Which is so hard in a multi-like person household, but it is. They have a lot of reading of people to do. So yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:56

And I will say they're better at it than we are at reading them. Yeah.

unknown 46:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:00

It's true. Usually they work it out.

SPEAKER_00 47:03

Yeah, hopefully. Yeah. Well, thank you, Arite. This was great, as always. It's so nice to see you. Thank you, Charlotte. It's such a pleasure. If you enjoyed this conversation, I'd love it if you'd followed the show, leave a review, and share this episode with someone who loves dogs. You can find links to everything we talked about today in the show notes. And I'd love to connect with you on Instagram at Baroo Pup. If you have a story you'd like to share, you can email me at Charlotte at the Baroo.com. Thanks for listening to the Baroo, and let's chat soon.